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Subject: Changing the economy and item restrictions rss

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Barry Smith
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Looking for a bit of feedback on an idea I had while playing through one of the story quests.

I'm not a big fan of only being able to hold 1 item per title, particularly because eventually you'll be able to hold a full compliment of gear fairly quickly (well, a few sessions of gaming) anyway.

I want to eliminate the title=item restriction but players would very quickly max out on good stuff during a quest. So to prevent this I was wondering if the act of collecting items could be changed, in a way that would necessitate the economy changing.

My idea is that when you pull a card you don't get to keep it, instead you get the sell value in gold and it then becomes available to buy from the next merchant you encounter.

But players can get gold very quickly as well so in order to give a sense of progress the buy price of green items is 8x and blue items 12x. This would seem to slow obtaining items to one every 3 quests or so, perhaps more if it's a blue item.

My initial thoughts were to allow the items to remain available to buy indefinitely once found, but as more white items are removed from the treasure bag cycling through green items becomes quicker and players would soon have everything available, so forcing them to be bought at the next merchant or they're put back gives a decision on when to spend money or save and possibly which hero gets a new item. Also helps that we won't need to keep track of what's available or not.

Now, perhaps some people that have played a lot can tell me how having lots of items changes how the game is played? I'm aware this would slow down item acquisition even more than requiring titles, would the game get too frustrating moving on to more difficult enemies without more items? I seem to have plenty of dice to do what I want usually anyway.
 
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Jonathan Rowe
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Personally, I like the mechanic of starting with basic (brown) Items, plus one retained Blue/Green per Title. The real progress comes from pimping your treasure sack so that treasure pops become more lucrative. You don't know exactly what Items you'll end up with on each quest, but the more rewards you've received, the quicker you pick up potent Greens and Blues.

The reason I like this us is that, for all the elegance of Myth's hand management mechanic, it easily gets samey. Each quest is just killing monsters on tiles and the published quests have only minor variations on this. The fact that your accessories vary unpredictably from quest to quest is important. Otherwise the Archer (for example) would secure for himself the Blackthorn Bow and Endless Quiver and that would be that, nothing more to achieve.

I can see how, after 5 Story quests someone could have 5 Titles and 'max out' but 5 Story quests is still 15 Acts, probably 30-40, probably 50 hours of play, and that's assuming you don't do deck manipulation or get killed and have to start over.

I think there's an understandable urge to replace the existing mechanic with something with more verisimilitude, something that realistically charts personal progress. The implications are far-reaching. If you make it even slightly easier for Heroes to hold on to Items or get the exact Item they want, then you need to balance this by making Items rarer - either adding more White tokens to the sack or making treasures pop less frequently, on 4 or even 5 kills.

I do think there's not enough uses for money and not enough opportunity to acquire Potions. I think more generally, the game could do with other firms of minor reward that let you carry over gold, potions, Serendipity points etc from one Story to the next.

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MM
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I think Jonathan's spot on. Nothing more for me to add. Well said, sir!
 
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anthony
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I understand the arguments, but I still don't like the way Myth handles 'character progression'. I also dont like being 'forced' to play the story quests to keep my items (and I dont believe there are good arguements for that one as it is, afaict, a 'tacked on' element (its essentially a double buff...).

I will tell you how our group does it; I dont claim its 'right', I just claim its right for us...
1. Starting treasure bag has 5 fewer greens. When instructed to add blue, we add green first.
2. 3 minion kills do not drop treasure, they drop 1 gold.
3. We keep all items we acquire.
4. At an arbitrarily specified time (end of an act, usually), we pay upkeep on all items the party wants to keep, equal to the sale value of the items.
5. We carry over all gold. Also, we buy any potions (all 6 available) when we are 'in town'.

The 5 less greens and the minions dropping gold reduces treasure gain. The upkeep payments usually means we can only keep 1 or 2 items anyway - as you would playing a few story quests, only I don't have to play story quests.

I am sure that, at some point, they will develop a progression system (they have all but said as much) and ours will probably be redundant. But for now it satisfies us.
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Jonathan Rowe
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You do progress in free play/Act Quests insofar as you pimp your treasure sacks, but the benefits of that are rather abstract, it feels like "grinding". Personally, I allow deck manipulation or the retention of potions or Serendipity after Act Quests.
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Johnny
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I finally completed the 5 story quests with a friend, and we've got all 5 slots unlocked, and I can say we both thought it was a great mechanic. We've got all blues, but not all of our class specific blues, so there is still some more advancement to be had there, and there is also the deck manipulations next, and then waiting for the expansions.

I think before we do the deck manipulations we're going to start two new characters and do the 5 quests over again. I agree with a lot of what Jonathan said about money needing more uses, but personally, I really like the title=equipment as it is.

Also, I've never really done free-form. I like the story quests and I think they add a nice touch to the game. And if you want to free-form, you can kind of do that within the story quests.
 
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Steve Kozlowski
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What do people think about the idea of changing the system so that instead of getting to keep one item per title, you get to keep one item per card manipulation you make to your deck (not including agent cards)?

The reason I'm thinking about this is because right now, it seems like titles are way better than deck manipulation, when you add in the fact that you get to keep an item with each title, it becomes a no-brainer which option to take when "leveling up". My thought was that tying the items to deck manipulation would create more of an actual choice. Do I take that sweet title that gives me a continuous bonus? Or do I manipulate my deck by one card which will only give me a small incremental bonus, but get to keep an item as well?

Those seem like more balanced choices to me. Any thoughts on that?
 
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Jared Voshall
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Hm... Perhaps a multi-tiered system would work best to resolve the majority of the issues? Perhaps with the following:

Gold is built up and used to purchase potions and items, either at cost for a 1 game buff, or at a significantly increased price to 'bind' them to the character. Perhaps with items being traded in at the end of each game to increase the options - and items sold become available in town, giving the players a reason to keep questing. However, non-starter items are lost (returned to their respective Item deck) if the character carrying them dies or loses the item for some reason. In addition, Gold can be used to revive fallen characters with any Bound items that they may have.

Experience is built up by completing quests at various difficulty levels, and is used to upgrade the item bag and player decks. This is in addition to any rewards from the quests themselves.

Finally, Titles are rewarded at the end of quest chains, and mostly work as they do now.

These can be tweaked so that overall progress is approximately the same as it is now, but changes things so that you can play a more free-form game without losing out on progression.
 
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Jonathan Rowe
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Titles _are_ better than deck manipulation, but not in a clearcut way. The Archer (which is the Hero I Know best) needs 2 titles so that he can hold onto a better bow and a better quiver. None of the other Items really makes a can't-get-by-without-it difference. Once the Archer has a better quiver and bow he needs another Orion's Tears card in his deck. That means more to him than any 3rd Item.

The other Heroes seem to be similar. The Apprentice and Acolyte have quite a lot of useful Items - by contrast, the Brigand is chasing that Umbral Sword but only really needs a second Suicide Run card. I guess what I'm saying is that, as you get your head around each character, you form your "shopping list" which will vary between the need for Titles/Items and manipulated Decks. This will also vary based on how Items turn up. If the Archer finishes the first Story without a Bow or Quiver (base luck, but possible) then Deck Manipulation makes more sense than a Title that lets you hold onto some Green Chainmail or some Boots of Speed.
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