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Subject: Q3 Real GDP growth at 5%: Q2 revised to 4.6% rss

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Tom McVey
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Here:

http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/national/gdp/gdpnewsrelease....

Pretty good given the head winds in Yuurroppp and China slowing down. GDP deflator at 2%. Stronger consumer spending at 3.2%, which is not bad either.
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Mac Mcleod
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I put more faith in the revised numbers but wow. That is pretty good.
Hopefully folks will have a good 2015!
 
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fightcitymayor
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Well, I'm sure that a major news outlet like Fox News will be blaring this good news from the nearest mountaintop! I mean, "It's the economy, stupid!" Right? Right? Right?!?!

Hmmmm...
Let's look. Nope, I don't see it there on the front page.
Let's see what did make the front-page:

A wonderfully insightful story about Harvard and SodaStream. (darn anti-semites!)
A hard-hitting piece about a zombie manger in Ohio. (darn war on Xmas!)
A poll that reportedly says the troops don't like Obama. (OBAMA!)
A shooting on a Miami basketball court (oh, those incorrigible Blacks!)

But not a peep about great economic news...
I wonder why that is?


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Shawn Fox
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Re: Q3 Real GDP growth at 5%: Q2 revised to 4.3%
fightcitymayor wrote:
Well, I'm sure that a major news outlet like Fox News will be blaring this good news from the nearest mountaintop! I mean, "It's the economy, stupid!" Right? Right? Right?!?!


Of course they will, clearly this is a direct result of the Republican victories in the 2014 House/Senate races.
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Jon Badolato
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Thanks Obama !
 
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Huh, AAA seems to think that the average price of gasoline in the US didn't start to decline until after June, which would be the end of Q2.

http://fuelgaugereport.aaa.com/2014/06/

There's a chart on the right.
 
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Paul Sauberer
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According to this the rise in GDP is the result of people emptying their savings in order to pay for increased medical expenses.

People were getting poorer in order to pay for Obamacare.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-23/exposing-deception-...
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Tom McVey
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Koldfoot wrote:
Geniesse wrote:
Huh, AAA seems to think that the average price of gasoline in the US didn't start to decline until after June, which would be the end of Q2.

http://fuelgaugereport.aaa.com/2014/06/

There's a chart on the right.


I commented without reading the link.

The link says it's due to increased govt spending.

Thanks Obama!

laugh


You'd still have the problem of explaining the q2 numbers, where federal spending decreased by 0.9% year-on-year.
 
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Josh
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Psauberer wrote:
According to this the rise in GDP is the result of people emptying their savings in order to pay for increased medical expenses.

People were getting poorer in order to pay for Obamacare.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-23/exposing-deception-...


After the umteenth time Obamacare was supposed to murder us all in our beds but didn't the various doomsday articles just become white noise. Blame the fearmongers.
 
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Tom McVey
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Shadrach wrote:
Psauberer wrote:
According to this the rise in GDP is the result of people emptying their savings in order to pay for increased medical expenses.

People were getting poorer in order to pay for Obamacare.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-23/exposing-deception-...


After the umteenth time Obamacare was supposed to murder us all in our beds but didn't the various doomsday articles just become white noise. Blame the fearmongers.


..but the hyperinflation that zerohedge predicted from the Fed's QE1-3 is just around the corner! Anytime now!
 
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Philip Thomas
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Psauberer wrote:
According to this the rise in GDP is the result of people emptying their savings in order to pay for increased medical expenses.

People were getting poorer in order to pay for Obamacare.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-23/exposing-deception-...


Doctors and medical insurance consultants are people too: actually on average people were getting richer, that is what the rise in GDP means . The faster the money goes round the more money there effectively is, so people spending their savings is good for the economy.
 
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Paul Sauberer
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Philip Thomas wrote:
Psauberer wrote:
According to this the rise in GDP is the result of people emptying their savings in order to pay for increased medical expenses.

People were getting poorer in order to pay for Obamacare.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-23/exposing-deception-...


Doctors and medical insurance consultants are people too: actually on average people were getting richer, that is what the rise in GDP means . The faster the money goes round the more money there effectively is, so people spending their savings is good for the economy.


So you are saying that GDP is a measure of wealth?

And that if people have to withdraw savings in order to afford the same goods that they did previously with their current income that they are better off?
 
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Philip Thomas
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Psauberer wrote:
Philip Thomas wrote:
Psauberer wrote:
According to this the rise in GDP is the result of people emptying their savings in order to pay for increased medical expenses.

People were getting poorer in order to pay for Obamacare.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-23/exposing-deception-...


Doctors and medical insurance consultants are people too: actually on average people were getting richer, that is what the rise in GDP means . The faster the money goes round the more money there effectively is, so people spending their savings is good for the economy.


So you are saying that GDP is a measure of wealth?

And that if people have to withdraw savings in order to afford the same goods that they did previously with their current income that they are better off?


A crude measure, yes. The people didn't just pour their savings money down the drain- it went into someone else's pocket. That person, other things being equal, was then better off. On average everyone was better off (the economy grew).
 
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Paul Sauberer
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Philip Thomas wrote:
Psauberer wrote:
Philip Thomas wrote:
Psauberer wrote:
According to this the rise in GDP is the result of people emptying their savings in order to pay for increased medical expenses.

People were getting poorer in order to pay for Obamacare.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-23/exposing-deception-...


Doctors and medical insurance consultants are people too: actually on average people were getting richer, that is what the rise in GDP means . The faster the money goes round the more money there effectively is, so people spending their savings is good for the economy.


So you are saying that GDP is a measure of wealth?

And that if people have to withdraw savings in order to afford the same goods that they did previously with their current income that they are better off?


A crude measure, yes. The people didn't just pour their savings money down the drain- it went into someone else's pocket. That person, other things being equal, was then better off. On average everyone was better off (the economy grew).


So earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes and floods are great things because everyone gets richer when people spend more money to replace things they had. They generate wealth.

If we don't have any natural disasters then we need to send people around to destroy things to make everyone better off.
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Mac Mcleod
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Zorg couldn't have said it better...

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Xander Fulton
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Psauberer wrote:
Philip Thomas wrote:
Psauberer wrote:
Philip Thomas wrote:
Psauberer wrote:
According to this the rise in GDP is the result of people emptying their savings in order to pay for increased medical expenses.

People were getting poorer in order to pay for Obamacare.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-23/exposing-deception-...


Doctors and medical insurance consultants are people too: actually on average people were getting richer, that is what the rise in GDP means . The faster the money goes round the more money there effectively is, so people spending their savings is good for the economy.


So you are saying that GDP is a measure of wealth?

And that if people have to withdraw savings in order to afford the same goods that they did previously with their current income that they are better off?


A crude measure, yes. The people didn't just pour their savings money down the drain- it went into someone else's pocket. That person, other things being equal, was then better off. On average everyone was better off (the economy grew).


So earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes and floods are great things because everyone gets richer when people spend more money to replace things they had. They generate wealth.

If we don't have any natural disasters then we need to send people around to destroy things to make everyone better off.


Don't be obtuse - of course not, as in that case something has been destroyed.

IE, a situation where one person has $1000 and another person has $0, then both people have $500 after an exchange of services, is good for the economy because money is moving around - and that's generally good.

A situation where one person has $1000 and a functional roof, and another person (roofer?) has $0, then after a storm one person has $1000 and LACKS a functional roof, they can pay the other person $500 and both end up with $500 each... but the economy is now down one functional roof that had to be reconstructed.

Money sitting in a savings account was not "doing anything" (technically, it was kind of, as presumably the bank was investing it), but moving it to other people is not damaging the overall economy. Nothing is lost, and money moving around, so the economy IS (technically) overall better off.
 
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Paul Sauberer
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XanderF wrote:
Psauberer wrote:
Philip Thomas wrote:
Psauberer wrote:
Philip Thomas wrote:
Psauberer wrote:
According to this the rise in GDP is the result of people emptying their savings in order to pay for increased medical expenses.

People were getting poorer in order to pay for Obamacare.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-23/exposing-deception-...


Doctors and medical insurance consultants are people too: actually on average people were getting richer, that is what the rise in GDP means . The faster the money goes round the more money there effectively is, so people spending their savings is good for the economy.


So you are saying that GDP is a measure of wealth?

And that if people have to withdraw savings in order to afford the same goods that they did previously with their current income that they are better off?


A crude measure, yes. The people didn't just pour their savings money down the drain- it went into someone else's pocket. That person, other things being equal, was then better off. On average everyone was better off (the economy grew).


So earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes and floods are great things because everyone gets richer when people spend more money to replace things they had. They generate wealth.

If we don't have any natural disasters then we need to send people around to destroy things to make everyone better off.


Don't be obtuse - of course not, as in that case something has been destroyed.

IE, a situation where one person has $1000 and another person has $0, then both people have $500 after an exchange of services, is good for the economy because money is moving around - and that's generally good.

A situation where one person has $1000 and a functional roof, and another person (roofer?) has $0, then after a storm one person has $1000 and LACKS a functional roof, they can pay the other person $500 and both end up with $500 each... but the economy is now down one functional roof that had to be reconstructed.

Money sitting in a savings account was not "doing anything" (technically, it was kind of, as presumably the bank was investing it), but moving it to other people is not damaging the overall economy. Nothing is lost, and money moving around, so the economy IS (technically) overall better off.


So then worrying about income equality is pointless? As long as money is moving it doesn't matter whether it moves to the top 1% or the bottom 99%?

"Opportunity cost" doesn't exist?
 
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Tom McVey
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Psauberer wrote:


So then worrying about income equality is pointless? As long as money is moving it doesn't matter whether it moves to the top 1% or the bottom 99%?

"Opportunity cost" doesn't exist?


Look up the Paradox of Thift - everyone attempting saving is not always good for an economy, and can result in no net increase in saving, as consumption is such a large part of the economy. The paradox of thift holds under certain conditions (low interest rates and inflation) which happens to be the conditions we're at now. The St Louis Fed has a good page on it here: http://research.stlouisfed.org/pageone-economics/pages/newsl...

If people are buying insurance and getting healthcare that they previously were excluded from (because of pre-existing conditions or inability to buy reasonably priced insurance on the old individual market conditions without the risk pooling from the exchanges) then that is A Good Thing. The US has excessive costs for healthcare, but certainly the old system wasn't anything more to restrain costs, and there are some (not enough) measures in the ACA to "bend the curve" - the rates increases this year were below what the CBO estimated would be the case.

Don't know what income inequality has to do with the issue of what the last quarter's GDP numbers are, though.
 
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