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Fleet Commander: Nimitz» Forums » Rules

Subject: No Contact rss

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Steve Carey
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According to the rules (pg. 20), the player must destroy all Japanese forces on the 1st turn of battle at the Hawaiian Islands space or the game is over.

The 1942 situation was a Japanese Sortie from Midway to Hawaii that included 1 CVL, 2 CA's (3 Ships total), and a battalion (1 Infantry). No LBA since Japan did not have a presence ashore.

The U.S. fleet at Pearl Harbor consisted of 2 CV's, 6 CA's, 4 DD's, 2 SS's, 2 LBA, and an Infantry.

The lone Japanese battle chit draw was "No Contact" which meant the entire U.S. fleet could not attack the Japanese Ocean area on that 1st battle round, so the game suddenly ended in defeat without a fight (eliminating the Japanese ship and transport in the Coastal Area would have been pointless since the CVL and a CA remained in the Japanese Ocean area).

Oh, I had purchased the "First Light" U.S. battle chit, but "No Contact" seems to trump that due to the battle sequence, so it wasn't used.

Does this situation sound correct?
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Derek Case
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Sounds about right, Steve. Damn...that's an unlucky draw to be sure. How hard did your fist hit the table?angry
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Ryan
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That sounds right to me as well. I think in that instance I might just redraw the Japanese battle plans. It doesn't seem like the game should be lost on such a random and unlucky event.

But perhaps that's how the Japanese take Hawaii?
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Peter Kossits
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You need to keep Napoleon in Hawaii and choose the insight that lets you extend the battle.

I don't have my game yet, but seriously, there's no way to make the battle last more than one turn?
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Christopher Schall
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I agree with Peter. Anyway to ignore the 1 round at Hawaii?? Seems like an enemy at your home doorstep would mean fight like heck and not give up after "1 round".
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dave clifford
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Why didn't you just engage Midway with a DD, then the Japanese would have to Sortie the closest objective with a US force - Midway. Or did you make the mistake that I did and scout first allowing the Japanese to move before being pinned.
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Steve Carey
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Ryanmobile wrote:
But perhaps that's how the Japanese take Hawaii?


Hi Ryan, to be fair the Japanese didn't take Hawaii - they just triggered the special game end condition (I don't know what it means).
 
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Steve Carey
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peterk1 wrote:
You need to keep Napoleon in Hawaii and choose the insight that lets you extend the battle.

I don't have my game yet, but seriously, there's no way to make the battle last more than one turn?


Not in this case, Peter - the U.S. chit to extend the battle duration wouldn't help because per special rule, a Hawaiian Islands battle can last only 1 round (then it's game over).
 
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Steve Carey
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dvsimp wrote:
Why didn't you just engage Midway with a DD, then the Japanese would have to Sortie the closest objective with a US force - Midway. Or did you make the mistake that I did and scout first allowing the Japanese to move before being pinned.


A suicide DD, why didn't I think of that!

You're correct Dave, I did scout Midway and the small Zuiho force moved right in, causing the U.S. surrender (Nimitz must have fallen out of his chair!).

Question - if a Move Order is 'Sortie' and U.S. forces are already present in the area, do the Japanese ships still move out or do they 'Hold'?
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Derek Case
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My first 1942 campaign actually ended in a similar circumstance, with the failure to destroy all Japanese forces at Hawaii in the first battle turn. My initial reaction was the same as you guys...seems a silly way to end the game.
But remember...the measure of success or failure in this game (or any game in the Commander series) is not whether you obtain this or that specific objective or prevent the enemy from doing the same.
Your success or failure is measured against that of the historic Commander, in this case, Chester Nimitz.
If you allowed Japanese forces to approach your main naval base and engage you at any length, an automatic loss makes perfect sense here. Nimitz was able to hold the Japanese at bay...
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dave clifford
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I just finished my 1st 1942 game with Hawaii falling. A small Japanese foce sortied out of Midway. The US had a huge force in Hawaii and I added in every helpful battle plan. The end result was the destruction of the entire Japanese force but a 0 strength battalion made it ashore first turn. A decisive US victory results in the firing of Nimitz.
 
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Steve Carey
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dvsimp wrote:
I just finished my 1st 1942 game with Hawaii falling. A small Japanese foce sortied out of Midway. The US had a huge force in Hawaii and I added in every helpful battle plan. The end result was the destruction of the entire Japanese force but a 0 strength battalion made it ashore first turn. A decisive US victory results in the firing of Nimitz.


Dave, I think you mean a decisive Japanese victory.

The game's standard does model Midway in a weird manner, so we'll probably play it differently for a co-op session this Sunday.
 
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Rick Yarto
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Steve Carey wrote:
According to the rules (pg. 20), the player must destroy all Japanese forces on the 1st turn of battle at the Hawaiian Islands space or the game is over.


Don't you guys think we should have a complete battle to repel the invaders and not just the 1st turn?

Rick
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Steve C
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I assume it means since you are such a bad fleet commander that you are relieved of command before the decisive battle of your home port is finished(thus its an end game).
 
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Robert Boyens
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You guys are missing the point - the Japanese do not take Hawaii or even survive the "real" battle - it just means YOU were relieved of command for allowing the Japanese to get that close. Someone else took over for you (Halsey?)and you will have to buy that game to see how it turns out.
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Steve Carey
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Not missing the presumed point, just commenting that it is a strange way to end a game on a random chit draw.

There are 2 No Contacts in the Japanese pool.
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Jim Allard
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I don't have and haven't played the game. I have FC-Rommel and have considered FC-Nimitz; but after reading this thread I am leaning against. While I may understand the principle, I don't like the idea of a game that ends on a chit draw on the first turn.

JimA
 
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Robert Boyens
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Well it all comes down to luck - the die rolls, the chit draw, etc. The IJN could have rolled Hold for all of their important units on the last turn, or could have drawn useless chits in a critical battle. Just bad luck - sort of like Kimmel being CINCUS when the IJN attacked Pearl. If Kimmel had been inactive in 1940 for some reason he might have had a wonderful WWII record and someone else would have taken the hit (or maybe done a better job).
 
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Peter Kossits
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Not really all down to luck. Once Japanese get troops that stick at Midway and have Japanese naval units stationed there at the end of a turn you open yourself up to all kinds of bad stuff including a Hawaii attack. All it takes is for one Japanese naval vessel, even a sub, to start a battle somewhere and then other naval units anywhere on the board have a chance of piling on to it.

Sortie targets the closest objective with US present. Normally that would be Midway itself, but I guess you got kicked out completely?

I think the key is to keep Midway clear of enemy ALWAYS at the end of a turn, but don't ask me how to do it because I'm still struggling with it myself. I haven't been kicked out completely in 2 plays so far, but it has always ended up being contested.

Keeping 2 powerful air units there versus sea is a no brainer, as is having Marines stationed there, but it doesn't seem to be enough. I'm thinking that ALWAYS moving two US CVs to Midway as long as an attack there is possible (if Midway is the closest US held objective - ie. Wake in Japanese hands) might be the trick?

Do you guys do a pre-emptive invasion of Wake to stall for time? Even though it's not an objective and it seems wasteful to spend energy taking it at the start of the game, it does seem to hold the Japanese at bay for a while.

 
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Steve Carey
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peterk1 wrote:
Sortie targets the closest objective with US present. Normally that would be Midway itself...


Alaska and Hawaii are the two East targets from Midway, so a 50-50 if I played that right.

 
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Peter Kossits
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But if you had a presence in Midway, then they would stay there since that was closest.
There's an example in the rulebook for a Reinforce order which targets the closest objective and they stayed in place, so I assume the same thing would happen in sorties.

 
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Steve Carey
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peterk1 wrote:
But if you had a presence in Midway, then they would stay there since that was closest.
There's an example in the rulebook for a Reinforce order which targets the closest objective and they stayed in place, so I assume the same thing would happen in sorties.



I played Sortie different than a Reinforce - I know some say both are a Hold if U.S. present, but it's open to interpretation (and is important)... has there been an official ruling?
 
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Peter Kossits
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Yup...sort of. In the Hawaii and Alaska Can't Be Attacked thread from a few days ago.

From Dan

You can fend off the Japanese by putting small forces on the Islands around Hawaii. Historically, the Japanese were never really in a position to invade Hawaii, but it was possible.

So, we decided to make it easy to defend Hawaii, without completely ruling out an invasion.
 
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