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Commands & Colors: Napoleonics Expansion #4 – The Prussian Army» Forums » General

Subject: Balance In The Prussian Scenarios rss

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Jon Snow
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Here are my Game Log notes after solitairing the first scenarios; more will be added.

1806

1. Schliez (5 Banners)
Prussia: 5 France: 4. Prussian Bug Out! Even.
Minimum Prussian engagement.

2. Saalffeld (7 Banners)
Prussia: 4 France: 7. French Left Wheel. Moderately Favors France.

3. Jena (8 Banners)
Prussia: 3 France: 8. First Large Battle. Prussians down 2 CC (4).
Heavily Favors France. French win by shooting rather than melee.

4. Auerstadt (10 Banners)

Prussia: 6 France: 10. Second Large Battle. Prussians down 2 CC (4).
Moderately Favors France. Prussians on their edge with little defensive terrain.

(EDITS)

5. Halle (Morning) (4 Banners)
Prussia 2 France 4. French Seize Bridgehead Heavily Favors France.

(First game anomaly: France concedes after each side at 1 Banner due to terrible card luck; second game reported above).

6. Halle (Afternoon) (8 Banners)
Prussia 4 France 8. Prussian 'No Go' Mission. Moderately Favors France. French block exits, transfer cavalry from right to left, and win in the open terrain of their left flank with infantry and cavalry.

7. Altenzaun (5 Banners)
Prussia 5 France 0. Prussian Perfect Defense. Heavily Favors Prussians. There seems no good way for the French to go!

8. Zehdenick(4 Banners)
Prussia 2 France 4 Cavalry Battle! Heavily favors France. Fun to play, with fast mounted action, but almost hopeless for Prussia.

9. Prenzlau (8 Banners)
Prussia 3 France 8 French Pursuit Heavily Favors France. Ve-ry interesting! But sides got great cards and spent most of the game fighting for the Prussian Exit Hex. Must be played to be comprehended!

10. Waren-Nossentin (Waren) (4 Banners)
Prussia 0 France 4 More French Pursuit. Heavily Favors France? A replay might change the balance rating--my game stalemated for a bit at France 3- Prussians 0, which seems more or less historical. I read the text as a defensive victory; but it seems unlikely the Prussians will get their 4 Banners based on the first game. This appears to be the first Prussian scenario where the balance (if correct) does not match the historical outcome.

11. Waren-Nossentin (Nossentin) (5 Banners)
Prussia 1 France 5 Still More French Pursuit Heavily Favors France. As #10, should be replayed to verify this rating. As in the previous scenario, these results go against the historical (usually favored) one.

12. Lubeck (7 Banners)
Prussia 1 France 7 Final French Pursuit Heavily Favors France. this scenario looked hopeless from the start, but with bad Prussian die and card luck against the opposite for the French, it was even worse than I expected. The Prussians went bravely down like the Texans at The Alamo!

1813

13. Blankenfelde (5 Banners)
Prussia 0 France 5 Nice Small Battle: First Prussian Reserve/Militia Army Slightly favors France? More play needed, as could fall either way. Historically a Prussian victory, so may be Even.

14. Grossebeeren (10 Banners)
Prussia 5 France 10 Nice big battle: Balance wise as #13. Slightly Favors France? Historically a Prussian victory.

15. Dennowitz (7 Banners)
Prussia 7 France 5. Prussians on the attack! Slightly/moderately favors Prussia. A meat grinder! Prussians have more, France has terrain. With only four cards, its a slow action.

1814

Laon (France): These two battles most lend themselves to a four player game with two boards, since they are the two sides of the same, simultaneous battle, similar to a Peninsula scenario from one of the first boxes. However, three terrain hexes in the center, south of the town of Ardon are shown differently in each, so a call will have to be made on them if doing so--which was not the case in the previous British/Spanish battle.

16. Laon: The French Right (8 Banners)
Prussia 6 France 8, Prussia 8 France 3. Prussians with superior numbers. Moderately favors Prussia. The first winning score was made by my pal Taeblewalker in his very first CCN game! I kept telling him he was doing it wrong and being too agressive, right up to where he tied my score! The second game score (solitaire again) however is probably more typical.

17. Laon: The French Left (9 Banners)
Prussia 8 France 7 The Old Guard Moderately favors Prussia. The French were lucky to do as well as they did. Even a glorious bayonet charge by all four Guard units and a cavalry charge that killed both a unit and its Leader couldn't turn it around.

1815

The Waterloo Campaign: after years of waiting since the original game contained the British side of the campaign came out, we have arrived at the 200th Anniversary of the Historical Waterloo Campaign, and can bring in the Prussians. The final three scenarios in The Prussian Army will probably be the most replayed at my house, but I was patient, and have learned to use the Prussian army before entering into these climantic actions!

18. Ligny (11 Banners)
Prussia 1 France 6. The Prussians attempt a stand in good terrain with four of their Iron Will counters against all of Napoleons best advantages--a murderous Grand Artillery Battery, a flexible variety of units, and The Guard waiting in reserve. Moderately favors France. It seems pretty hopeless for the Prussians here, but its certainly worth a replay. This is about as large and long as a standard format scenario gets, with 21-22 units per side and the large number of banners required for victory.

19. Placenoit (9 Banners)
Prussia 5 France 9. The Prussians storm into Placenoit, as shown by the box cover art! Slightly/Moderately Favors France. I expected this to favor the Prussians, but they don't have the units they need--no Grenadiers, many second and third line units, and little artillery, although they do have numbers. The French have lots of superior Guard units, can easily grab the important terrain even though the Prussians go first, and even have artillery superiority! But the Prussians had some bad card luck, and this game begs for replay; so we'll see. I'll probably be playing this with the main British Waterloo scenario from the original game side by side with four players--it will have to do until Grande Bataille comes out.

20. Wavre (8 Banners)
Prussians 8 France 7 Even Neither side really has what it needs, and has to hustle. Its a nice, tight battle. As in Placenoit, some really good cards needed to be "wasted" activating only one or two key units for local positional advantage. There was lots of back and forth; the kind of game where one the French plays Short Supply on a Prussian artillery battery, and the next turn they play Bombard and wheel it right back into position!

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Mark McG
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chas59 wrote:
Here are my Game Log notes after solitairing the first scenarios; more will be added.

1. Schliez
Prussia: 5 France: 4. Prussian Bug Out! Even.
Minimum Prussian engagement.

http://www.ccnapoleonics.net/Maps/Fourth-Coalition-1806-1807...
after 13 plays very evenly balanced
Quote:

2. Saalffeld
Prussia: 4 France: 7. French Left Wheel. Moderately Favors France.

http://www.ccnapoleonics.net/Maps/Fourth-Coalition-1806-1807...
After 11 plays, heavily favours the French. Prussians need a start of about 3-4 banners to make this competitive based upon Mini-tournament results
Quote:

3. Jena
Prussia: 3 France: 8. First Large Battle. Prussians down 2 CC (4).
Heavily Favors France. French win by shooting rather than melee.

http://www.ccnapoleonics.net/Maps/Fourth-Coalition-1806-1807...
After 8 plays, favours the French. Not an easy game for the French though, needs a careful approach.
Quote:

4. Auerstadt

Prussia: 6 France: 10. Second Large Battle. Prussians down 2 CC (4).
Moderately Favors France. Prussians on their edge with little defensive terrain.


http://www.ccnapoleonics.net/Maps/Fourth-Coalition-1806-1807...
After 6 plays, slight favour to French. Looks like a tough struggle for 10 banners.
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David Groves
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I will be very interested to read about your experiences with:

Halle (Morning)
Zedenick
Waren-Nossentin (Waren)

I had some enjoyment out of Halle Morning and Waren (Waren), although they are hard on the Prussians but I doubt I will bother with Zehdenick again.

Dave
 
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Minot
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This is where the whole balance thing is a little in the eye of the beholder.

Sure, the competitive gamer in us wants an even chance for each side, but the historian in us would balk, for example, if Jena was a "fair fight."

And of course, you have the weird battles, such as Cannae, Auerstadt, or even the first half of Waterloo, where the loosing side actually had a significantly bigger and/or better army, but suffered from horrible leadership. How do you balance a battle where the player is fully aware of the mistakes made by his predecessors, and can avoid them, yet it was those mistakes that kept the battle "balanced" in the first place.
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Jon Snow
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Well, my motivation in sharing is to see if other people gernerally agree with me, or if I've missed something. And to help people trying to decide whether to get the Expansion. I'm not trying to set anything in stone!

As you say, there are many factors involved in designing a scenario--which is something I specialize in for my 54mm toy soldiers through almost all periods of history and F/SF. For me, the perfect scenario is not necessarily the perfectly balanced one, but the one that gives players the same decisions as the original commanders had to make on the field. Therefore, a totally unbalanced scenario due to factors you mention such as the original strange mistake/knowledge/circumstances never going to occur again, should be accounted for by Victory Conditions that reflect this, perhaps with some kind of Limited Intelligence, making the historical outcome only one (and perhaps an unlikely one a that) or it won't be a very fun game.

An extreme example of this can be seen in an "alternate history" or 'What If' scenario. What if the weather had been better on a certain day toward the end of the American Revolution in Virgina, and Cornwallis had followed up his plan to try and break out across the water at Yorktown, against the US/French garrison that had been placed to stop this possibility? In our game the British were not successful, but it was a still a fun game!

Some time ago playing C&C Epic Ancients I wanted to play Lake Trasimenus because I had just come back from Italy and seen the lake in the distance. But we knew what would happen and I took the Romans. A few turns later, after I'd been massacred, we played a different scenario for the main game of the day! But it was a signature major battle of the time, and Mr. Borg probably wanted to include it for coverage.

This is not to mention the oddities inherent in the game system itself. Now I love C&C, owning all six of the games with all of their expansions. I even assembled all of those blankety-blank tiny hard plastic samurai! (They do look good assembled). But...

In my first Prussian Army Scenario #4Halle (Morning) play, yesterday on Christmas Day, my poor first live opponent for this Expansion playing France had such bad card luck that I'm not even 'officially' reporting it here. The game ended after we both lost 12 blocks or so and he had to concede because he had nothing left to fight with, even though we each only had racked up one Banner each! He got almost no Center cards as France turn after turn, and I got almost nothing but as Prussia. And I had given him France expecting him to win in a short game, as he was just getting back into the system. So I'm going to solitaire it again for a more 'normal' result.

BTW, for a more detailed account of my first, game (Schliez)see the thread "First Time Play on the First Scenario," which is not the OP but a later post further down.
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Guillaume Gleize
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Very interesting posts about the creation and balance (or not) of scenario.

I experienced it recently when I created a CCN single board scenario of Austerlitz. How do you plan to present a battle that had been historicaly won by a tactical trap (or error from a leader however you call it) and when the historical winning army was outnumbered by the losing one ???

- Do you just set the historical armies and let them act free? Be sure the historical error won't be repeated ... But it may be your goal ...

- Do you represent the battle at a later moment while the error is on march?

- Do you oblige the historical looser to do the error?

For Austerlitz I choosed to oblige the error to be only started: The Allied left wing receive special orders (rules) ... But the Allied player has different possibilities to fix the error and save the situation (In My Humble Opinion) ...
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Jon Snow
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Halle (Afternoon): For the Prussians, A 'No Go' Mission?

Well, after just discussing scenarios where you'd never want to do what was done historically, here I am starting to play Halle (Afternoon) and, as the Prussian side of this solitaire play, I'm looking at the blunder that was made historically, analyzing the scenario conditions for performing this mission, and saying NO WAY, JOSE! My Prussians are not going to try to turn the French flank with my army, because:

1. With only four cards, the chances I'll win a race around to the exit hexes are minimal.

2. The Prussians have good defensive terrain on the other two sectors of the board, so giving it up would be a dubious act at best.

3. One thing you can't really do in C&C is make a "strategic" redeployment of your army from one side of the board to the opposite one! Especially not with a small (four cards or less) and inferior (to your opponent) hand of cards. For one thing, if you evacuate a sector, a third of your cards become useless. For another, a hand can rarely sustain such a complex coordinated movement over more than a few turns. Tactical maneuvers yes; strategic no! Try it with C&C Ancients, at Epic Lake Trasiminus or Teutoberg Forest, and you'll see what I mean. When Mr. Borg wants to destroy your army, he gives you this kind of a mission! The only way I'd try it in general would be with a radical scenario rule that allowed you to use your evacuated sector cards in the next sector over as well, or something else game changing like it.

Why not just make Halle (Afternoon) a more or less even battle by staying where I am, letting them come to me, while trying to hurt the French in their bunched up mess on their right flank? Sure, maybe send a few units down the other side to put some pressure on them and possibly get a cavalry unit or two exited off the board if things break right; but that's about it.

In fact so far this has proved out. Although the battle is not over, the French managed to get a solid line of units across the escape path on the row in front of the exit hexes on nice terrain to block them off. Exit Mission aborted!

Although I'm only starting out with this Expansion, it seems to be the case, as I'd initially thought, that the Prussians are the best at standing up to the French in melee, at least defensively. The Austrians Line lose their edge once they lose that first block in each oversized unit. And other nations' Line units: faggeddabbouddit (as we say here in NYC). But the Prussians will "take a lickin' and keep on tickin,'" even, as in this sixth scenario, without any Iron Will counters at all.

In general, when I look at C&C Game Special Victory Conditions, I often find myself thinking that I'll ignore them until I'm one or two VPs away from victory, if they seem too difficult.
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Guillaume Gleize
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chas59 wrote:
[b] Line units: faggeddabbouddit (as we say here in NYC).


I agree that most of the Special Victory Conditions are traps for the players (like me sometimes) who only count on them to win!

 
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Some Interim Comments

1. When I first looked at the Prussian Army scenario list way back, I wondered why there was such preponderant coverage of the 1806 Campaign. Part of it, as in all of the expansions except perhaps the Base Game with the British and The Spanish Army, must have to do with what they are saving for Grande Bataille.

How about an entire expansion/scenario book on Leipzig?

2. Now that I've gone through almost the first half of the scenarios, I'll be interested how the Prussian Reserve and Landwehr will factor in the second half when they are finally called to the colors. The Iron Will counters may actually be the most useful to help them out, in a way that other militias did not have open to them! I recall reading in one of the Waterloo books by Peter Hofschroer how well they did in battle, which surprised me.

3. whistle (PS: Are newbies who look at the still unnumbered expansions going to be confused? I would be. Oh, well.)

4. The last major addition to my vast 54mm toy soldier collection was the Napoleonic armies. (And it will probably be the last major one ever, as I'm running out of both room and years). I'm still learning about this period, as I came to it late, as opposed to most smaller scale miniaturists who started out with Napoleonics. So thanks again to Mr. Borg and his Allies for teaching me so much, and providing me with so many scenarios which could easily be used for minis games (even with different rules systems, like my own). C&C Ancients performed a similar function for me of course, but I don't do figure gaming in that period (which is as long as all the other periods combined). For my take on all of the Borg games, see here:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1238923/guide-cc-games-r...

(Edit) GG: Note that the new Memoir 44 Tactics and Strategy Guide agrees with us about the special objectives in general!
 
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Minot
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chas59 wrote:

2. Now that I've gone through almost the first half of the scenarios, I'll be interested how the Prussian Reserve and Landwehr will factor in the second half when they are finally called to the colors. The Iron Will counters may actually be the most useful to help them out, in a way that other militias did not have open to them! I recall reading in one of the Waterloo books by Peter Hofschroer how well they did in battle, which surprised me.


A bit off topic, but I've found Hofschroer's books to be, besides rather dry reading, very poor scholarship. He gets kudos for assembling and making available multitudes of Prussian after action reports and letters, either in summary or in whole, which were previously unavailable to English readers and students. However, he ruins the effort, and his credibility, by accepting the veracity of virtually all Prussian reports and letters prima facie, and then using those as the yard stick against which all British accounts are then judged (without, as near as I can tell, even bothering to reference any French sources). He attempts no analysis beyond "British lied, Prussians died."

Any military historian should know that after action reports, while seldom deliberately falsified, are almost never entirely accurate. They suffer from the time dilation, faulty memories, and incomplete knowledge of events experienced by their authors, yet Hofschroer cites the Prussian ones as if they were gospel truth. For example, he uses reports from a multitude of Prussian medal citations (or equivalents) verbatim as if one can accept the Prussian versions of the action as definitive, in an attempt to prove the absolute quality of Prussian/German troops compared to British (and French), rather than there contemporary purpose of simply establishing the relative quality of the cited troops and units cited within the Prussian army.

Hofschroer had the opportunity to write a truly useful history of the Waterloo campaign, but in reality created an account of the battle that was in actuality as partisan and one-sided as he claims the preceding English language versions are.
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Jon Snow
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Thanks for the commentary on that author, as I'm still trying to find my feet in this period. Any thoughts on the utility of the Prussian Reserve and Militia?
 
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Mark McG
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chas59 wrote:
Thanks for the commentary on that author, as I'm still trying to find my feet in this period. Any thoughts on the utility of the Prussian Reserve and Militia?


The Militia are identical to every other Nation's militia. Iron Will might make them a bit more useful, but I haven't had any remarkable experiences.

Reserve Infantry are as good as the Dutch Infantry in the original Waterloo scenario, and generally I'd rate them as good as Portuguese LN, better than Spanish LN. I've found them pretty dependable along with Iron Will.
 
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Jon Snow
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Thoughts At The End of The First Prussian Campaign

Finally the 1806 Campaign is over, and its time to take a break for a while! Most of the poor defeated Prussians "lie asleep in the arms of the Lord." That's another Alamo reference; its the final elegiac line from the song at the end of that film (John Wayne version), that is now playing in my head.

1. New York loves von Yorck! I was happy to see this Prussian General complimented by Mr. Borg for his performance in the historical commentaries, since he's sort of an old pal. A couple of years ago I was adding to both my Prussian and Russian 54mm toy soldier armies, and wanted to put them on the table without the French. I learned that von Yorck commanded a Prussian Army allied (unwillingly) on the side of the French in northern Russia during the great 1812 invasion. And so these two usually Allied armies went at it in one of my nine Napoleonic minis games (the Russians won).

2. It does feel great to have followed so many battles through one campaign, almost as though I'd played an series from a Memoir 44 Campaign Book! The Prussians won two battles, Altenzaun, which they usually will, and an anomaly at Halle (Morning), probably the only time they ever will. This is about the last Napoleonic campaign I've had chosen myself to cover so fully, but we take what we can get. If all of the promised CCN expansions do get made over the next couple of years--Grand Bataille, Leadership, Minor Nations, and 1812 Americans, then there will have been as many expansions for C&C Napoleonics as there have been for C&C Ancients. I hope that does happen, and I wonder; what will follow that?

3. I'm looking forward to the next three Prussian periods covered. It will be interesting to see the post Reform Prussians deployed, and note the differences. I hope the Prussians have a better chance later on, as they did historically.

4. When I played in Mr. Borg's Memoir 44 Operation Olympic event in the last HMGS Con I attended a couple of years ago, his pals had a huge binder full of scenarios for that hypothetical WWII campaign, not just the one we played. Somewhere on the shelves of Mr. Borg and his associates must be hundreds more scenarios and expansions for the six C&C games. Let's hope at least some of them will see the light of day in our life times. When Asmodee recently bought out FFG (after the latter had themselves bought out DOW), one fan hoped Asmodee would allow Mr. Borg to publish more Battle Lore modules for his original game, rather than the new one. A guy can dream...(sigh).
 
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Minot
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Minedog3 wrote:
chas59 wrote:
Thanks for the commentary on that author, as I'm still trying to find my feet in this period. Any thoughts on the utility of the Prussian Reserve and Militia?


The Militia are identical to every other Nation's militia. Iron Will might make them a bit more useful, but I haven't had any remarkable experiences.

Reserve Infantry are as good as the Dutch Infantry in the original Waterloo scenario, and generally I'd rate them as good as Portuguese LN, better than Spanish LN. I've found them pretty dependable along with Iron Will.


Ditto. RI + Iron Will = Line for the first half of the scenario. Of course, if the Prussian Army really takes a beating (and use up the Iron Will), then RI became a bit of a handicap. Thematically, I think it matches history pretty well.

chas59 wrote:

4. When I played in Mr. Borg's Memoir 44 Operation Olympic event in the last HMGS Con I attended a couple of years ago, his pals had a huge binder full of scenarios for that hypothetical WWII campaign, not just the one we played. Somewhere on the shelves of Mr. Borg and his associates must be hundreds more scenarios and expansions for the six C&C games. Let's hope at least some of them will see the light of day in our life times. When Asmodee recently bought out FFG (after the latter had themselves bought out DOW), one fan hoped Asmodee would allow Mr. Borg to publish more Battle Lore modules for his original game, rather than the new one. A guy can dream...(sigh).


'Course, I am still (im)patiently waiting for that Big Battle Cry pack and that 1863-1865 expansion for BC150 that we will never have . . .
 
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Jon Snow
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See OP now for battles after the first campaign!

Comments on the three 1813 Battles

These later battles are much more fun, although the Prussians have still only won at Schliez (by 1 banner), a second very wacky Halle, Altenzaun which favors them, and now Dennowitz; that's 4 out of 15.

The Prussians seem the only Allies to be able to stand up to the French in melee, at least in defense. If the Prussians have more than two Iron Will, the French may be better off playing a shooting game until they are used up. The Prussians are sometimes better off standing behind the good terrain, out of shooting line of sight, and then battling back when the French enter the terrain with their +1 advantage.



 
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mike dalziel
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HI,
After playing the Saalffeld scenario, and having read the history books, i felt this scenario needed more time for the french attack on the left to develop. To simulate this i would suggest that the french troops on the left cannot activate until 2 activation cards have been played into the left sector (for no effect). This would give the saxons/prussians the option to attack in the centre (as they did historically), or continue the retreat towards the hill on their right.
Thoughts?
mike
 
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Mark McG
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hesmkd wrote:
HI,
After playing the Saalffeld scenario, and having read the history books, i felt this scenario needed more time for the french attack on the left to develop. To simulate this i would suggest that the french troops on the left cannot activate until 2 activation cards have been played into the left sector (for no effect). This would give the saxons/prussians the option to attack in the centre (as they did historically), or continue the retreat towards the hill on their right.
Thoughts?
mike


Looking over the scenario, it looks to me that the Centre is the French advantage
http://www.ccnapoleonics.net/Maps/Fourth-Coalition-1806-1807...

The LT in Beulwitz seems to be the most distinct advantage.

Without trying to change the OB too much, or the historical dispositions that I can see online, bringing the French LT in Beulwitz back 2 hexes to the replace 1 LN, and move that LN to adjacent to Vedel would remove the initial advantage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Saalfeld
http://www.arcdetriomphe.info/battles/saalfeld/

I don't think that will balance the scenario, but at least the French might have to work a bit harder.
 
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Roger Reisinger
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Im new to CCN and thx for the list. Unfortunately it seems like almost all the scenarios ate imbalanced so I wont bother with this expansion. Im not looking for a simulation, a historical recreation where I can re-enact one sided battles and watch it play out. Im a gamer, I want to have fun and the game to be competitive where anyone can win.

Are any expansions better at balancing scenarios or is there a scenario creator module available? It would be cool if there was an army builder and point value on units if the designer wants to keep a historical context to the scnarios.

Thx!
 
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No disrespect meant to the OP, but I would not take this thread (or any single thread) as the final word on scenario balance. While there are a few scenarios in the C&C system that are way out of balance so as to be almost broken (M'44 Arnehm Bridge, I'm looking at you), even most the "unbalanced" scenarios are still generally still winnable by both sides. Moreover, your milage may very. For example, I've seen people say Wilson's Creek (BC150) was tilted way too much in favor of the Confederates, but with my opponents (it is one of our favorite scenarios), we find its outcomes very balanced.

Looking at the Prussian scenarios on CCNapoleonics, I would say overall it appears very we balanced, actually (with only a slight advantage to the Frenchm which could possibly be to most players being more familiar with how to use the French army well). NO wargame (as opposed to a "build an army" miniatures-style game) will ever be perfecty balanced, but CCN games are usually close enough to be competative.



 
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Jon Snow
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No offense taken! This thread is not meant to be the final word, as mentioned above, but rather the first word in a discussion on a new product! (And perhaps helpful to people considering purchase to know what is included).

Scenario balance is certainly not the only factor in evaluating a wargame. But having just read a fairly new player on another thread say that he didn't want to buy something with unbalanced scenarios, it certainly is one important characteristic people want to know about.

We old hands know that all of the C&C games tend to favor the historical winner, and don't mind at all. Although its been a while since I had a live opponent that wanted to switch sides and play the same game again.
 
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Jon Snow
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Thoughts On The CCN Waterloo Campaign

What I'll probably be doing until the next expansion comes out, is taking out the two original box Waterloo scenarios (Quatre Bras and Waterloo) and replaying them along with the last three here. I note that when originally played upon publication in 2010, those games resulted in very unbalanced scores:

Quatre Bras: 3 French wins 9/4, 9/0, 9/4 (against 3 different live opponents)

Waterloo: 3 French wins 3/0(British resign), 8/4, 8/5 (also against live opponents)

Me: Why do the French do so well at CCN Waterloo?
Richard Borg: Look at the time. Its still early.

Well, maybe the Grand Bataille and Leadership treatment will change this a bit. Or maybe I've learned a few things in the last four years or so that can help the Brits. Or now perhaps we'll get some new fan scenarios for Waterloo.

We could certainly use a Waterloo Campaign Book!
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Minot
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Have you played Waterloo with the walled farms on the British right? While the French still have an advantage, it has been minimized in my opinion.

I have found that Quatre Bras seems to move, if anything, to an advantage to the Brits, if played correctly (basically, keep the Dutch/Belgians behind the forest and the woods until the British line get up).
 
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Mark McG
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For MT13, I'm aiming to give the 1813-14 Prussian scenarios a spin, and for MT14 have the Anglo-Prussian 1815 scenarios. I think we will have a modified Waterloo scenario that has Prussian reinforcements available, though if they turn up or not.

http://www.ccnapoleonics.net/Maps/Seventh-Coalition-1815/md1...


OR (perhaps AND)
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1311257/changing-waterlo...

Hope to have MT14 starting around June for the bicentennial of the Waterloo campaign.
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Jon Snow
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NT: I see a note on my old Waterloo scenario to add the two walled farms for Hougoumont and La Haye Sainte, but darned if I recall if I played them that way originally. How long after the original publication were they added? (Austrian Expansion?) (Edit) I've noticed now that in their variants Michael also places a Walled Farm in Papelotte, while GG does not.

Thanks for the tip on Quatre Bras! The Portugese and Dutch/Belgians are a taste of what we can expect for the Minor Nations Expansion some day.

MM: Yes, MT 14 sounds like just what I'd like to try out, with variable Prussian reinforcement. I'll be very excited to tackle it when its ready--please mention it here as well! Now that I'm done with the first Prussian run throughs, I'll have time to start checking out that other site again.

Some days I get the urge to get out a big M44 Breakthrough board and just throw all of my available Waterloo CCN units onto it! You'll notice I put my CCN Reinforcement Table adopted from M44DDL in the Files section of the CCN original game discussion board for a D-Day Landings sort of thing (I just finished playing that too). Heck, I probably can't fit all of my Waterloo nations' units on that big board at once anyhow.
 
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Mark McG
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On the bicentennial, I'd love to give this a playing with 6 players.

http://www.ccnapoleonics.net/Maps/Seventh-Coalition-1815/md1...
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