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Subject: Victory Point cards face down?? rss

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Brett Meyer
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On page 14 of the rule book (under Victory Point Cards) there is a Hint that states, "...Place them face down in front of you".

Does this mean that you cannot keep Victory Point Cards in your hand? Also, does this mean (or imply) that ALL Development Cards should be placed face down in front of you?
 
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Development cards are not part of your hand. These are kept separate from your resource cards. All Development cards are kept face down (hidden) until they are used. Victory point cards do not have to be revealed until the end of the game. Knight (or Soldier in 3rd ed) cards are revealed as they are played and remain in front of the player to track Largest Army. Monopoly, Year of Plenty and Roadbuilding cards are discarded when they are used.
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Brett Meyer
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Also, on page 5 (under Buying Development Card) it states, "Keep your Development Cards hidden (in your hand) until you use them, so your opponents can't anticipate your play."

Confusing!
 
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Tritium wrote:
Also, on page 5 (under Buying Development Card) it states, "Keep your Development Cards hidden (in your hand) until you use them, so your opponents can't anticipate your play."

Confusing!


Yes that wording is confusing. Your Resource cards and Development cards are essentially two separate hands.
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Max DuBoff
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JustPeachy wrote:
Tritium wrote:
Also, on page 5 (under Buying Development Card) it states, "Keep your Development Cards hidden (in your hand) until you use them, so your opponents can't anticipate your play."

Confusing!


Yes that wording is confusing. Your Resource cards and Development cards are essentially two separate hands.


Yes, this is the best way to think of it.
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T. Dauphin
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I suppose you could reveal them if you want to, but any card you draw can be concealed--though there is no imperative to do so. You can't play them on the turn you draw, so it's better to keep them hidden until you can.

Victory point cards do not need to be revealed until you are using them to declare victory.

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T. Dauphin
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JustPeachy wrote:
Tritium wrote:
Also, on page 5 (under Buying Development Card) it states, "Keep your Development Cards hidden (in your hand) until you use them, so your opponents can't anticipate your play."

Confusing!


Yes that wording is confusing. Your Resource cards and Development cards are essentially two separate hands.


Well, you could try hiding them in your 'hand' to keep your opponents guessing, but the different backs on them would mean you;d have to do some careful concealing.

 
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Brett Meyer
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It makes sense that all Development Cards be kept face down on the table, since that would often eliminate having to get rid of half your cards if they were all held in your hand and a 7 was rolled. But, it does specifically state to keep your Development Cards "in your hand".

Nowhere does it mention that you have 2 hands...1 that you hold (Resource Cards) & 1 that you keep face down in front of you (Development Cards).

I'm new to this game, so I'm not questioning your guidance...but please explain how you came to this conclusion given the information in the rule book. Thank you!
 
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Brent Pollock
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The one advantage to keeping them in your hand is that it can remind you to play a Soldier card before you roll. But, I usually keep them in a separate pile.
 
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T. Dauphin
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It's not really that critical.
However the loss of half your cards is Resource cards, only, and it does say that. Development cards are used quite differently than resource cards so it just makes sense to keep them separate. And my suggestion that you keep everything together was only half-hearted. Keeping them completely hidden would require some vigilance, and when you happen to use up all your resource cards for a purchase, you would no longer have anywhere to hide the development cards.
Ultimately you can hold your cards however you like--as long as you're not hiding them under the table or up your sleeve.


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john ford
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Welcome to Catan! Perhaps a useful way to look at it is that the Resource cards are available for you no matter whose turn it is (i.e., who is rolling the dice). You can trade them or hold and play them on your own turn, so you always want to have them in front of you. Development cards are only for your own use (not for trading) and are playable only on your turn, so they don't need to be immediately at your fingertips. Keeping them face down on the table is the most convenient way to "hold" them.
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Reiner Dr. Düren
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When playing it is irrelevant if you keep the cards in your hands or lay them on the table, they should only be hold hidden. But to give all cards a long life the best thing is to lay them on the table. Especially when eating chips or other fatty things when playing, it isn't good to hold them permanently in the hands.
 
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tanik wrote:
Well, you could try hiding them in your 'hand' to keep your opponents guessing, but the different backs on them would mean you;d have to do some careful concealing.


While not specifically called out either way in the rulebook, I would think the number of Development cards you have should be open information, with no "sneaky sneaky" going on.

Reason being that everyone else knows when you buy one, and everyone else knows when you use one, so it doesn't take much to figure out how many you haven't played yet.
 
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Mark L
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grarrrg wrote:
tanik wrote:
Well, you could try hiding them in your 'hand' to keep your opponents guessing, but the different backs on them would mean you;d have to do some careful concealing.


While not specifically called out either way in the rulebook, I would think the number of Development cards you have should be open information, with no "sneaky sneaky" going on.

Reason being that everyone else knows when you buy one, and everyone else knows when you use one, so it doesn't take much to figure out how many you haven't played yet.

The way I've always played it is that how many cards you have in your hand is public knowledge (so that if you are over 7 resource cards when a "7" is rolled everyone can remind you to discard -- people do forget!) and I would certainly apply that to development cards too.
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Travis West
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Quote:
The way I've always played it is that how many cards you have in your hand is public knowledge (so that if you are over 7 resource cards when a "7" is rolled everyone can remind you to discard -- people do forget!) and I would certainly apply that to development cards too.


Hold on, do Development cards count towards your total hand size when a 7 is rolled? My friends and I played this for the first time last Friday, and the assumed consensus (there wasn't any real talk about it) was that Development cards are essentially a separate hand from your resource cards.

This has interesting implications if this is the case, as a Victory Point card would then essentially reduce the capacity of your hand size by 1 (to avoid the robber when a 7 is rolled that is). If this is indeed the case, and Development cards do count towards total hand size when a 7 is rolled, is one allowed to play a victory point card on their turn (keeping the cards in front of them similar to knight cards) so that it is not taking up what I see as a valuable resource slot in my hand?
 
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Asceric wrote:
Quote:
The way I've always played it is that how many cards you have in your hand is public knowledge (so that if you are over 7 resource cards when a "7" is rolled everyone can remind you to discard -- people do forget!) and I would certainly apply that to development cards too.


Hold on, do Development cards count towards your total hand size when a 7 is rolled? My friends and I played this for the first time last Friday, and the assumed consensus (there wasn't any real talk about it) was that Development cards are essentially a separate hand from your resource cards.

This has interesting implications if this is the case, as a Victory Point card would then essentially reduce the capacity of your hand size by 1 (to avoid the robber when a 7 is rolled that is). If this is indeed the case, and Development cards do count towards total hand size when a 7 is rolled, is one allowed to play a victory point card on their turn (keeping the cards in front of them similar to knight cards) so that it is not taking up what I see as a valuable resource slot in my hand?


Development cards do not count towards total hand size. Only Resource cards count towards the hand limit.
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Travis West
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JustPeachy wrote:
Development cards do not count towards total hand size. Only Resource cards count towards the hand limit.


Thanks. So it looks like we played it correctly then, and there's not much else to worry about.
 
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T. Dauphin
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Asceric wrote:
JustPeachy wrote:
Development cards do not count towards total hand size. Only Resource cards count towards the hand limit.


Thanks. So it looks like we played it correctly then, and there's not much else to worry about.


Yes. In fact you will notice that the rules specifically say "resource cards", not "hand" when talking about the 7 cards.

 
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