Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
24 Posts

Star Wars: Imperial Assault» Forums » General

Subject: Allies in campaign, are they worth it? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Janis Goldmanis
Latvia
flag msg tools
mbmb
Can anyone with experience chime in please?

Went through rules for allies since heroes has the option to obtain Han Solo ally.

Is it worth trying to get him?

Taking him along on a future mission would mean that Empire player can deploy almost any group he wishes. (I'm particularly found of Royal Guards and Trandoshan Hunters. ninja)

Is Han really so good to offset this?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
b p
Croatia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Nope.
Allies tend to die quite easily and the one measly attack per round does not justify the benefit the overlord gets with free threat at the start of a mission.

Sadly, from experiences so far i have found that the ally mechanic is the most useless one in the entire game
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Janis Goldmanis
Latvia
flag msg tools
mbmb
Disappointing.

I can't understand then, how is it balanced for skirmish.
In theory Han should be the same worth as two storm trooper squads.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Connellan
United States
Binghamton
New York
flag msg tools
badge
I am the white void. I am the cold steel. I am the just sword.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Unfortunately, this is what I've seen too. It's really hard to keep them safe, and they never are able to kill their threat cost in enemies before they go down. Maybe if we cut their cost in half?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Arnone
United States
Parkville
Maryland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Pintsizepete wrote:
Unfortunately, this is what I've seen too. It's really hard to keep them safe, and they never are able to kill their threat cost in enemies before they go down. Maybe if we cut their cost in half?


That makes zero sense. You are using their Skirmish cost, and so is the Imperial player. Given that Skirmish mode seems pretty well balanced from what I've seen, you shouldn't be having that much trouble breaking even with allies.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sean Houston
United States
Tulsa
Oklahoma
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmb
If the allies are "going down," doesn't that mean the imperial player is wasting activations on a non-objective? Mission accomplished for the heroes?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard A. Edwards
United States
Lacey
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've wondered about this too. Our Rebel players seldom bring their allies along. Too expensive.

Perhaps the rebels are using their allies like their heroes, to achieve a campaign objective, rather than a straight up fight as in a skirmish game? So in the end,they get killed pretty quick with little affect on the mission?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryce K. Nielsen
United States
Elk Ridge
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
We've brought solo almost every time, and he's paid off wonderfully. We have to protect him on that opening volley, but then he's fantastic. Usually gets off 2, sometimes 3 attacks every round (his normal attack, his retaliation shot, and if Gideon is a hero, he can order him to shoot), and he absorbs a good 4 to 6 attacks before dying. Plus, he's loads of fun to play.

-shnar
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ken Marley
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If you get the Rebel trooper pack, Fearless Leader and Rebel Operations would reduce the trooper cost to 2. Or Rebel Sabatour to 3. These would be rare, but easy includes.

I do like the idea that Allies are not auto includes. It is clear in some missions they will be good and some bad.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Don
United States
Louisville
Kentucky
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
youperguy wrote:
...It is clear in some missions they will be good and some bad.


This. They can be great, they can get in the way - it depends on the mission. It's unfair to say they're uniformly bad though, they can make a huge difference (and frequently do in side missions when you don't have to pay their deployment cost(in threat))
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
b p
Croatia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Seeing that Han costs as much as a regular + elite stormtrooper squad combined, there is pretty much no way in hell he can pay of his cost in threat if the imp has any idea of what he is doing.

To clarify- that is 6 attacks vs 1, or 24 health vs 15 all nicely spread out, with an added Empire benefit of Han being out for the reminder of the mission when he runs out of hp, whilst a bit of strategic play will allow the imp to always keep one of the troopers alive and just keep reinforcing the groups every turn with fresh CHEAP cannon fodder.

Now i can see the allies having some good sides on mission types in which the imp has a timer and has to focus on the objective or lose, but usually it is the other way around, and spending resources to deal with the additional enemies or protecting the allies from certain death is a no go.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryce K. Nielsen
United States
Elk Ridge
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Fizzletop wrote:
Seeing that Han costs as much as a regular + elite stormtrooper squad combined, there is pretty much no way in hell he can pay of his cost in threat if the imp has any idea of what he is doing.

I've had him pay off with exactly that Imp strategy. Diala was able to take out 2 of the Red Stormtroopers before they could even activate, and Han retaliated and killed a gray stormtrooper before he took any damage. In another mission, the Imp took IG-88 but again, we were able to kill him before Han was killed (he was about half damage).

Han's a beast, you just have to know how to protect him long enough to make him useful. Luke is pretty good too. And I have to admit, I can't wait to see other allies, like Lando, the R2/3PO, Leia, etc.

-shnar
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
b p
Croatia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I am really beginning to think FFG ships different kind of dice in each box...
In our "get Han" mission, Diala activated first, moved to a group of 3 elite stormtroopers and used the way of the sarlacc on them. She counted on surges to do cleave 2, but somehow managed to roll so poorly she didnt kill a single one of them. Then they activated, used show of force on the first attack, one was stunned to get two attacks, one got an extra attack with a surge with that once per mission agenda, and well... she was dead by the end of that turn.
Not wounded, dead. turn one.


Gotta love dice rolling games.

Also, how the hell do you manage Han to retaliate, he never once rolled a dodge when we played that mission and was taking at least 1-2 damage on every attack (he once got six in one focused hit) :-(
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Janis Goldmanis
Latvia
flag msg tools
mbmb
Fizzletop wrote:
I am really beginning to think FFG ships different kind of dice in each box...
In our "get Han" mission, Diala activated first, moved to a group of 3 elite stormtroopers and used the way of the sarlacc on them. She counted on surges to do cleave 2, but somehow managed to roll so poorly she didnt kill a single one of them. Then they activated, used show of force on the first attack, one was stunned to get two attacks, one got an extra attack with a surge with that once per mission agenda, and well... she was dead by the end of that turn.
Not wounded, dead. turn one.


Gotta love dice rolling games.

Also, how the hell do you manage Han to retaliate, he never once rolled a dodge when we played that mission and was taking at least 1-2 damage on every attack (he once got six in one focused hit) :-(


Mine "get Han" side mission was completely one sided Rebels-killing-everything.
(Threat level 2)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bryce K. Nielsen
United States
Elk Ridge
Utah
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Stormtroopers average 2-3 damage. Han with his Cunning ability quite often gets the Defense + Evade result, which results in 2 Defense and minus one surge. At least 50% of the time, he's not being hit by Stormtrooper fire. At least, in our games. Your dice gods hate you

-shnar
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Connellan
United States
Binghamton
New York
flag msg tools
badge
I am the white void. I am the cold steel. I am the just sword.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
SeanLuc wrote:
If the allies are "going down," doesn't that mean the imperial player is wasting activations on a non-objective? Mission accomplished for the heroes?


Well, when it only takes one round from Elite Imperial Guards to smoke Luke, it's not really wasting activations, since they are there because Luke came in in the first place. Then they get to stick around to devastate the remaining rebels. Mission accomplished indeed...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Barron Brodeur
United States
Florida
flag msg tools
We just played this mission as our first side mission. I am the Imperial player.

Though I forgot My Agenda and my Class card, I was able to win against the Rebels.

Threat level was 2 since this was the first side mission.
I had an open group of the AT-ST (never used it) The Royal Guards (Grey) and Stormtroopers (Grey).

When they finally opened the door with Han, I dropped the Imperial Officer who got a gigantic health buff (he went from his normal 5 to 17 health) due to the rules of his deployment, even after reinforcing my Trandoshan Hunters. The Hunters took a Shock Grenade to the face while my E-Web Engineer got shredded to pieces (missed first attack, Han retaliated followed by Heroes shooting the poor Engineer).

The last round saw me dropping my Royal Guards to help buff my Officer's defense. Didn't need it as I finally rolled my first Dodge of the night. Secured the win with one of the Guards.

It certainly felt like Han needs more protection than I would suspect but I was going straight for him knowing he was my win condition. I think I only attacked the Heroes in one round due to not having light of sight on Han.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pasi Ojala
Finland
Tampere
flag msg tools
Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
badge
The next Total Solar Eclipse holiday in 2024 in USA? See you there!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
GroggyGolem wrote:
I dropped the Imperial Officer who got a gigantic health buff (he went from his normal 5 to 17 health) due to the rules of his deployment

Was it a mission rule? Did you by any chance mix up threat and threat level?

The additional health rules I have seen add threat level (or twice) to the health of figures, not the current amount of threat. So, if you play the mission as the first side mission, the amount of extra health should have been 2 or 4.

4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Steski
United States
Olympia
WA
flag msg tools
Thou art I... Thou hast acquired a new vow.
badge
With the birth of the BOARD GAMES Persona, you have obtained the winds of blessing that shall lead to freedom and new power.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think it depends on the mission and the ally. In our campaign, the Rebels had access to Luke and the Rebel Saboteurs. It was always a difficult decision when considering bringing Luke because he's so expensive. (Especially since the Imperial player acquired Darth Vader). Ultimately, we ended up bringing him on a couple missions when we were worried about short round limits. Luke's fairly durable and having an extra attack to slice through enemies so we can advance faster seemed worth it.

The Saboteurs on the other hand were almost always worth it IMO. Their threat cost is so low, but they have some pretty nasty attacks, and there are two of them. I think they outweigh an extra Stormtrooper squad any day.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Reserved 89
msg tools
mbmbmbmb
The Heroes don't have to decide whether to deploy an ally until they have seen the map, the initial imperial deployments and been read the mission briefing.This allows you to make a good decision on whether to use the ally, considering such factors as:

-- whether you can clear the initial deployments + bonus deployments easily
-- whether you can protect the ally
-- whether the extra deployment you give away is going to slow you down re objectives. If the mission is un-timed, allies are usually worth it if you can protect them at the beginning
-- threat level (generally allies are better the higher the threat level)
-- Gideon can make allies much better early campaign

In our group's experience, allies have been excellent when we have deployed them.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nolan Cluff

California
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
InkSplat wrote:
Pintsizepete wrote:
Unfortunately, this is what I've seen too. It's really hard to keep them safe, and they never are able to kill their threat cost in enemies before they go down. Maybe if we cut their cost in half?


That makes zero sense. You are using their Skirmish cost, and so is the Imperial player. Given that Skirmish mode seems pretty well balanced from what I've seen, you shouldn't be having that much trouble breaking even with allies.

I have not found skirmish to be balanced. I think it highly favors the Imperial player. That's why the new rule was created about having fewer deployment cards. Skirmish needs tweaking to be balanced.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeremy N
msg tools
IMO, the best Allies are:

1. Rebel Saboteurs: They're very cheap and probably the only allies I'd hands-down bring to every mission (their 5 speed helps). Blast lets them kill their worth in threat pretty easily (1 ST group or 1 Probe Droid). The mission to get them is a near guaranteed win for the Rebels (providing they don't overthink it). Bonus if Diala is around with Force Adept to let them re-roll any whammy (1 dmg) red dice.

2. Luke Skywalker: Inspiration is pretty huge. I'd say that ability in saving failed attacks over the course of a mission earns his points back. He has recover 2 along with a good attack dice combination for using it, a white, and a bonus +1 defense, keeping him alive. Saber strike is better for doing any actual damage against Black-dice characters (again, Force Adept helps). Haven't played his mission, so not sure how hard it is.

3. Chewbacca: I'd bring him maybe on the Finale (since all rebel figures must be defeated). Great if you have Gaarkhan with Wookie Loyalty to chain defense bonuses with him. Optionally, in later 5+ Threat Level missions, missions where the IMP gets 2X Threat to start the mission but forgets to use it (or opts not to because they greedy trying to deploy Elite Royal Guards), I'd grab Chewbacca and point to the "Max 20 Threat" rule and stick it to them (making his cost 10/12). Downside is his mission is maybe a 50/50 chance of winning, depending what the Threat Level is when you do it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
taleden .
msg tools
I used to be firmly of the belief that high-cost allies (Luke, Han, Chewy) were never worth it because they'd die before they could make up for the increased Imperial deployment. But the first time my Rebels brought Chewy, I gleefully countered with Vader (by saving a few extra threat from my side mission optional), and then spent all of round 1 wasting shots on Chewy who just refused to take damage, while they ganged up and dropped Vader.

Lesson learned: black+white defense is *tough*, probably tougher than black+black all things considered, and that makes Chewy a pretty solid choice. In hindsight I could have made much better use of that 15 threat, but facing Chewy is still lose-lose for the Imperial: either spend tons of actions trying to drop him (instead of shooting heroes, win for the Rebels), or else ignore him and let him tear through Stormtroopers like confetti (win for the Rebels).

I haven't seen Han or Luke in action enough to judge if they're worth their similarly high cost, but my instinct is that they're more likely to get focused down too fast, unless the Rebels are very careful about protecting them, which will distract from their actual mission objective.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick Mahan
msg tools
You should bring an ally depending on the current threat level.

If the imp player is only getting 3 threat per turn, then of course don't bring someone like Han since you're then giving that imp player 4 turns worth of threat. Most likely the heroes can't stand against that vast of threat right off the bat.

However, if the threat counter is 6 per turn, then go ahead and bring Han as thats only 2 turns worth of threat. And the heroes can more easily deal with that by that part in the campaign.

Basically, the longer in the campaign, the less valuable threat becomes. Just like the imperial player shouldn't bring high cost units at the start of the campaign, the rebels shouldn't bring high cost allies.

Unfortunately, most of the heroes obtainable from the core game are high cost.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.