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Subject: Take 2-5 time markers rss

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andrea melegari
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On the players board the action " take time markers" shows a 2-5 symbol.
I understand the 2 is because you get a minimum of 2 time marker sa rules state. However i can't understand what the 5 mean. Can i take a maximum of 5 per action or is the limit given by my lab capacity as the rules say?

Thx!
 
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Łukasz Małecki
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You can't take more than 5 time markers, because time markers of the new round are never added to the remaining ones (you need to take them off first). Therefore, the maximum amount of time markers in one "room" will always be 5.
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andrea melegari
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Thx! I missed that part!
 
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Robert Crawford
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As good is the iconography is in general this one was really annoying to me. Yes, due to the various things that can come out every turn, there's never a situation in which more than 5 time markers will ever be in a space. However, that's not at all the same as saying that by the game rules, you aren't allowed to take more than 5 time markers! No where in the instruction book is this "limit of 5" mentioned.

You have to "figure out" that 5 is the max by looking at every single round tile, plus every single game setup card, and notice that none of them ever bring more than 5 time tokens out in the same space.

It just adds an ambiguity in the rules, namely "is it legal to take more than 5 time markers?" Yes by the way the game happens to be balanced, more than 5 will never be available, but that doesn't answer the question. I really wish that either A) The rules stated clearly that 5 is a maximum limit you are allowed to take; or B) The iconography didn't show the 5 as an upper limit.
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Billy
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GendoIkari_82 wrote:
I really wish that either A) The rules stated clearly that 5 is a maximum limit you are allowed to take; or B) The iconography didn't show the 5 as an upper limit.


I've seen enough people miss the "Remove any leftover Time Markers from the Station." part of Preparing for the Next Round, especially because we don't clear out Crystals, Octopods, Research Cards, or Lab Expansions. Having something on the board that says "even if you messed up that one exception in the rules, a single player won't be able to take an unfair amount of time here" is useful for me.
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Robert Crawford
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b414213562 wrote:
GendoIkari_82 wrote:
I really wish that either A) The rules stated clearly that 5 is a maximum limit you are allowed to take; or B) The iconography didn't show the 5 as an upper limit.


I've seen enough people miss the "Remove any leftover Time Markers from the Station." part of Preparing for the Next Round, especially because we don't clear out Crystals, Octopods, Research Cards, or Lab Expansions. Having something on the board that says "even if you messed up that one exception in the rules, a single player won't be able to take an unfair amount of time here" is useful for me.


Actually we messed that rule up ourselves last night (my 3rd game total, but I was taught by someone who had forgotten most of the rules...). The 2-5 text really confused us, because we DID have 6 times on at least one spot, but couldn't find anything at all in the rulebook that said you are limited to 5 time. So we allowed someone to take the 6 time, figuring that the iconography didn't count as an actual rule. And that's the whole problem; iconography doesn't count as actual rules.
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Seth Jaffee
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GendoIkari_82 wrote:
b414213562 wrote:
GendoIkari_82 wrote:
I really wish that either A) The rules stated clearly that 5 is a maximum limit you are allowed to take; or B) The iconography didn't show the 5 as an upper limit.


I've seen enough people miss the "Remove any leftover Time Markers from the Station." part of Preparing for the Next Round, especially because we don't clear out Crystals, Octopods, Research Cards, or Lab Expansions. Having something on the board that says "even if you messed up that one exception in the rules, a single player won't be able to take an unfair amount of time here" is useful for me.


Actually we messed that rule up ourselves last night (my 3rd game total, but I was taught by someone who had forgotten most of the rules...). The 2-5 text really confused us, because we DID have 6 times on at least one spot, but couldn't find anything at all in the rulebook that said you are limited to 5 time. So we allowed someone to take the 6 time, figuring that the iconography didn't count as an actual rule. And that's the whole problem; iconography doesn't count as actual rules.

Can you really blame the iconography though for your missing the part in the rules that says to clear out the time markers?

While I agree that iconography is not a substitute for rules, as a general principle I don't think it's necessary to explain things in rules that are not possible, and for me it's confusing when that does happen.

For example, if you are unable to ever take more than 5 time because more than 5 time is never available, I would question a rule that said "you are not allowed to take more than 5 time" because it would make me think I missed some way for 6+ time to be available in the first place.

However, I suppose a clarification saying "you cannot take more than 5 time because there will never be more than 5 time available, it's impossible," then that would halt both sides of the confusion, but then you run into a rules writing problem of which impossible situations to point out and clarify like that. Blind testing rules can help with that, but often times those types of questions aren't really known until the game has already been published and thousands of people are playing it, and it's too late to insert rules into the printed rulebooks.
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