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The Battle of Five Armies» Forums » Variants

Subject: Combination of BotFA and WotR as an 'epic campaign' game. rss

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William Wilting
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I don't know either this game or War of the Ring. I don't have them either. But it seems that, though I'm sure there are differences between their mechanics, they make me think that they are somehow similar.

Well, the theme of both games comes from the same world and from different parts of the same story. I don't know how these games work, but if they are really similar enough, I would like to make fans of those games think that there might be a way to combine the two games and turn them into a single 'epic Middle Earth' campaign game.

I'm not talking about using both boards simultaneously, but rather about a way to make it possible to follow the timeline of the whole Middle Earth story. What I mean is that I think that fans of epic gaming would like to find a way to, for example, start with the Battle of the Five Armies game, and at the end of that game, carry some benefits for the winner and penalties for the loser, as well as using some of the components as an addition, over to the War of the Ring game.

Of course someone thinking of such a variant would need to find a way keep the story realistic while going from the first game to the second. For instance, if Gandalf somehow doesn't survive the Battle of the Five Armies game, then he can't be a part of the War of the Ring game.

If someone can come up with such an idea, then it would be awesome for the fans. I'd like to hear about some interesting session stories if that happens.

Does anyone see a chance to create such a game variant? If he or she does, good luck!
 
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Derry Salewski
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Are you familiar with the stories? There's quite a bit of time in between!

But b5a covers the end of a short book. Wotr covers 5 fairly long books. Other than both being in middle earth and using some mechanics (to model different things) they don't have a ton in common. The scale is very different.

Basically you'd be creating variants for war of the ring, which is already a very carefully balanced game. It would probably be neat to see some "what if" historical setups in war of the ring. Maybe Smaug lives and gets a figure. Maybe Dol guldur is occupied by elves. I dunno. But really that would take a lot of energy, and even more to then try to tie them to end results of a first game. I imagine they'd be more fun on their own.

(But really if you're going to this, you should play Middle-Earth Quest in between )
 
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William Wilting
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Yes, there is at least 60 years in between. That is a lot of time, but some of the characters of the story do have their role in both; if not in the book, then at least in the movies. And yes, I know movies are not books and they're not fully loyal to the story as it was created.

But what is an important part of the link between both stories is the scenarios. Both good and evil in Lord of the Rings, even if they are represented by different characters, are affected by the consequences of accomplishing or failing missions by the characters in The Hobbit.

No matter if they have their part in the story or not, (background) characters like Gandalf, Galadriel, Saruman, Sauron, the Witch King of Angmar, Gollum and even Bilbo Baggins have their important part in the world of both stories. Thinking of the movies, even more characters could be added.

I'm not saying I would play like this. I don't know either of these games, nor do I have them, so I can't even try. But I see people being creative to think of their variants of games, and I always like to see someone being happy to actually achieve his or her goal by really doing it with much succes.

I don't like to see that people are playing by certain rules because they simply don't like or understand them. To those people I would say: 'Take a look at reviews before you buy something'. But there are other people that do like the rules, but just intend to have a new challenge, by really creating something new and extra. I just want to inspire them by ideas like this. If it's not possible, it's not possible. But while this idea seems so ridiculous, if someone can even create a solo variant for a complex game like War of the Ring, which has actually happened, then that person certainly likes experiments.

This is just for inspiration. I'm not going to try this myself. I just like to see more of this creativity on this site. I read a lot around here, especially about the experiments of gamers.
 
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JR Wr
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Neat idea.

But id not try it.

As was said, the BoFA is the end of (I wouldnt call it short really, not story wise) one book and WoTR spanning the 'Trilogy'.

Side note on that, its not 5 books unless im mistaken.
Its one REALLY long book.
It was split into a 'trilogy' for marketing purposes from what Ive always understood.

Back on topic.
Im not sure this could be easily implemented.
It would be cool if it could.

Such as you say, Gandolf were to die in the Five armies battle, he wouldnt be in WoTR.
Big problem with that though, is if Gandolf were to die in the first battle, in theory, Lord of the Rings would have never happened.
Gandolf would not have figured out the Ring being what it was.
Would not have been there to warn Frodo.
Who in turn, would have never left the Shire.
In fact, were it not for Gandolf, Bilbo would never pass on the Ring.
So they would have still been in the Shire when the Ring Wraiths came.
The whole Epic that is Lord of the Rings would simply have not happened if Gandolf, or really even Bilbo, had not survived the BoFA.
Anyone else really would not have made a massive difference.

Also, Legolas was NOT in the Hobbit.
And while I enjoyed the movies thus far (not seen the last one yet) they are sacrilegious in the extreme when it comes to stuff like that.
Well, for a Tolkien fan anyway.
I mean they changed some things in LotR, but not to that extreme.

Anyway, what you suggest is a neat idea.
But I cant imagine how it would work out.
And as noted, WotR is a very delicate balance of a game.
Story wise, if any of the characters in LotR didnt survive the BoFA the LotR would have never happened.

Thus if Gandolf or Bilbo die in Battle of Five Armies, then War of the Ring never happens.
 
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Craig Truesdell
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Consider key plot members out of action instead of "dead"... happens in books, movies, TV all the time..."oh look, he is still breathing!, get Elrond here stat!"



+1 for adding MEQ to the mix

 
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Dave de Vil
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If BOTFA could somehow be refashioned into the Battle of Dale it might work; but the map would need to be on a bigger scale. Would also need Easterling figures from the other games.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_dale
 
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