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Subject: The "MUST KNOW FAULTS" with Zombies!!! rss

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The Attraction
The idea seems great, a group of people beginning in a town centre, discovering the town [3X3 square tile at a time] as they go with each new square bringing with it a new horde of Zombies protecting precious life points and bullets. Weapons can be gained through playing event cards on specific parts of the town (Like the 'Axe' card in the 'Fire Station'). As players explore, kill off Zombies, and hunt down new weapons they also hinder the movement of other players through the Event Cards. This all sounded wonderful to me: killing Zombies, collecting weapons, ammo, and life points, exploring a town, holding back other players at crucial moments in the game...well, at least it SOUNDED wonderful...

The Problems
1. Weapons are hard to get - The 'Event Deck' is full of cards that say 'Get to LOCATION to get WEAPON'. Problem is you have to first FIND the location (which could be discovered by someone else on the other side of the board), or may be on the bottom of the 3X3 square pile, being the last part of town discovered, GET to the location (which could take you TEN turns at least), and then not die along the way as you try and fight your way through Zombies. In all the games I've played I think the best weapon I've had is 'Marbles' from a Toy Store...which I used brilliantly to prevent Zombies moving...wow...lots of fun...

2. No sense of progress - The aim of the game is to either collect 25 Dead Zombies or reach the Helipad first. Thus you need to 'collect Dead Zombies' [by killing them]. To do either you need to fight Zombies, yet you only have 3 bullets and 3 life points to begin with. Perhaps enough to kill 4 or 5 Zombies [if you're lucky]. This means you need more bullets. To get more bullets you need to find a store. Stores usually stock 4-5 bullets/life points combined, yet are usually protected by 6-7 Zombies. You do the Math. The bullets/life points you earn aren't even be worth the Zombies that are protecting them. You'd expend MORE bullets/life in getting more bullets/life than you would by sitting on your butt doing nothing. Sound complex and ridiculous? It is...Confused? I've played the game and I still am.

3. You are expected to die - The rules clearly state 'Yes, you will die and be forced to start over'. Why? Because it is what is expected, and as such you are not given enough material (bullets and life). When you die you lose half the dead Zombies in your collection. So if you've tried to win by getting 25 Zombies, then you get to 20 and die, you come back to life on the centre town square with only 10 Zombies. Again, the sense of progress is lost as you've been fighting hard, then come to nothing. Alternatively you could have 20 Zombies, hard fought for, and the lazy player on the town square (see point 5 below) can come along and steal the game off you after they've been playing solitaire all game...


4. Too many Zombies, not enough Zombies!!! - Yep you read it right, there are too many Zombies ON THE BOARD, yet simply not enough Zombie figures that come with the game. Of course you can buy the additional packs of plastic Zombies but it'd be nice if the game came with all the pieces that you needed. We always end up having to take Zombies from 'quiet' or 'unused' areas of the town and replace them in a newly discovered area, which is annoying if ever anyone needs to go to back to that 'quiet' or unused' area.

5. Do nothing all game...then win... - Two ways of winning, killing 25 Zombies or reaching the helipad first. Generally if you're trying ot kill 25 Zombies you'll exhaust a lot of bullets and life points (remember you only start with three of each). Also, the person who is coming last places the helipad (you can choose the optional rule of NOT doing this, which I would recommend). Thus potentially you could sit on the centre town square, play solitaire with yourself whilst everyone goes and tries to kill Zombies, then when the helipad comes out place it close to you (or far away from everyone else), then roll through with your fresh 3 bullets and 3 life points and win the game. Thus, the whole course of the game is pointless until the helipad comes out, then if you place it close you can win in 2-3 turns (even though you've done nothing all game).

The fun part
I think the only fun part of the game is hindering the progress of other players through the event cards. You can control their movement thus sending them into a group of Zombies, or freeze them in their tracks forcing them to miss a turn, or place Zombies in their path, forcing them to fight their way through. The action of 'killing the Zombies', i was surprised to find, isn't even that fun. You roll a dice, 4+ and you win...that is all...dead Zombie...yay (written in a very unenthusiastic tone)...


Conclusion
The game has little point to it. It is so random that you could literally do nothing the entire game, not even be at the game table, then come along with two turns to play and win. Alternatively you can kick butt all game, kill a heap of Zombies, then lose.

Why you still may enjoy the game
I suspect this game is intended for those who are interested in games which are very high in luck. There is some skill and decision making involved in the mid-game, but as this is all pointless to the final outcome it would let people down who enjoy this.
At the same time it is intended for those who love Zombies/Horror flicks and are not too interested in the intricacies of gameplay.
By trying some variants, change the rules a little and make up your own way to play, it may make it better.
Alternatively, it could be for people who enjoy playing solitaire whilst their friends play another game...
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Good review... I think that nicely sums up the case against.

If you're a masochist and are interested in giving it another try, use the Quick Play rules which can be downloaded from BGG.
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hugo mocc
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I'm a sucker for zombies themes and own this game. Yes it has faults and can be frustrating, but nothing can beat the buzz I get from my Chuck Norris lookalike plastic dude with gun (I've handpainted him to look like CN) killing bunches of zombies. Even if he dies and has to do it all over again.

It's probably one of the games I had the most fun playing (mainly due to theme).
 
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Robert Martin
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This is a good summary of the faults with the game. Personally, I find that the game can be a lot of fun with a few fairly simple rule tweaks. Check out the "Quickerplay Rules" which were compiled by fans of the game on the ZombiesBG Yahoo Group. A lot of people still don't like the game even with these rules, but they do seek to close most of the gaps in the rules.
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Christopher Alden
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You mention it, but you also miss the point of the game. The Zombies aren't what the game is about. The game is about interfering with the other players. You need to put the city tiles in such a way that it blocks your opponents from using the helipad and use the event cards to stop the strategies that they are trying. You are playing against the other players, not against the Zombies.

I played last night with three other people and we all had a blast. You do have enough life and bullets to kill 25 Zombies with a little luck and careful planning and dying is not as easy as it seems assuming you aren't stupid about how you play.

In regards to the player who doesn't play, but plays solitaire instead. He's a punk who should be kicked out of the group for not getting into the spirit of the game. He wouldn't be fun to play with no matter what game you were playing.

The flaws you mention do exist. The game isn't perfect, but it is fun if you want to have fun. Decent review, I just don't agree with it.
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Regretfully, my gaming group and I agree with your review. Having said that, I almost bought a Bag 'o' Babes tonight thinking (once again) I could write a better variant but...(sigh) my game group has already moved on to other games.
 
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Dave Dussault
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I know this was basically a review on the game as is, but you could simply tweak the rules and make it that you need 25 Zombies AND reach the center of the Helipad first, instead of either/or.

That'd solve your solitaire player problem. Thanks for the heads up on the lack of Zombies, I guess I will have to buy some more for the game soon. I didn't even think about it.
 
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Do you mean 25 Zombies minimum before reaching helipad? That sounds more reasonable but again emphasis is on the lack of Zombies. I think you only get 100 Zombies in the game (I could be wrong, pleae correct me if so). With 6 players that doesn't leave you much room if everybody is going for the victory (ie: and not just playing solitaire on the side snore ).

Has anybody else had problems with the lack of plastic Zombies? It happened to us most games we played and I think that explains why you could buy extra bags.

I think you can tweak the rules to make this a more interesting game. I still have qualms about the dynamic of rolling a 4+ to kill a Zombie, but the end-game settings can be more easily tweaked.
 
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1. Weapons are hard to get - The 'Event Deck' is full of cards that say 'Get to LOCATION to get WEAPON'. Problem is you have to first FIND the location (which could be discovered by someone else on the other side of the board), or may be on the bottom of the 3X3 square pile, being the last part of town discovered, GET to the location (which could take you TEN turns at least), and then not die along the way as you try and fight your way through Zombies. In all the games I've played I think the best weapon I've had is 'Marbles' from a Toy Store...which I used brilliantly to prevent Zombies moving...wow...lots of fun...


Specific weapons are hard to get, but weapons in general are not. If you've got a weapons card for the other side of town, chuck it away so you can draw a different one later (if someone is near the store in question wave it under their nose and make gloating noises before discarding.). Also movement isn't that slow unless boards are placed in a silly 'high street' configuration, which leads to a short endgame anyway (The unbound playing area is one weakness of the game and can eat up table space - would suggest agreeing to limit the usable dimensions beforehand.)

Quote:
2. No sense of progress - The aim of the game is to either collect 25 Dead Zombies or reach the Helipad first. Thus you need to 'collect Dead Zombies' [by killing them]. To do either you need to fight Zombies, yet you only have 3 bullets and 3 life points to begin with. Perhaps enough to kill 4 or 5 Zombies [if you're lucky]. This means you need more bullets. To get more bullets you need to find a store. Stores usually stock 4-5 bullets/life points combined, yet are usually protected by 6-7 Zombies. You do the Math. The bullets/life points you earn aren't even be worth the Zombies that are protecting them. You'd expend MORE bullets/life in getting more bullets/life than you would by sitting on your butt doing nothing. Sound complex and ridiculous? It is...Confused? I've played the game and I still am.


Progress can be made but isn't easy. Only attack zombies that are actually on counters. If you place the tiles make sure counters are easy to get atzombie free - there are also cards in the deck that help clear a path or avoid them. Try moving zombies off the counters in advance andor into the street - Naturally if others are being negative then this won't work but if in the street you might just get another dude to (unintentionaly) help clear a path for you.

Quote:
3. You are expected to die - The rules clearly state 'Yes, you will die and be forced to start over'. Why? Because it is what is expected, and as such you are not given enough material (bullets and life). When you die you lose half the dead Zombies in your collection. So if you've tried to win by getting 25 Zombies, then you get to 20 and die, you come back to life on the centre town square with only 10 Zombies. Again, the sense of progress is lost as you've been fighting hard, then come to nothing. Alternatively you could have 20 Zombies, hard fought for, and the lazy player on the town square (see point 5 below) can come along and steal the game off you after they've been playing solitaire all game...


It can be a slow slog to get the zombies, and a big setback to die, but the zombie count can also get done relativly quickly with the right cards. 10 Zombies is still a better position to start from than 0, and if others are distracted, such as by someone being near the pad, then a quick set of uninterupted kills such as grenade in the hospital, can get you the game.


Quote:
4. Too many Zombies, not enough Zombies!!! - Yep you read it right, there are too many Zombies ON THE BOARD, yet simply not enough Zombie figures that come with the game. Of course you can buy the additional packs of plastic Zombies but it'd be nice if the game came with all the pieces that you needed. We always end up having to take Zombies from 'quiet' or 'unused' areas of the town and replace them in a newly discovered area, which is annoying if ever anyone needs to go to back to that 'quiet' or unused' area.


There are around 60 zombies that appear in the buildings, 100 available in the box (2nd Ed), if you need to free them up from the 'dead pool' just use something else as a token to represent dead(er) zombies (unused dudes = 10?). That should give you enough to cover even multiples of the zombie 'popup' cards. If your group isn't actually killing any that might explain your 'too many' problem. With six players I can see a shortfall but I just can't see the need to removetransfer any from areas on the board.

Quote:
5. Do nothing all game...then win... - Two ways of winning, killing 25 Zombies or reaching the helipad first. Generally if you're trying ot kill 25 Zombies you'll exhaust a lot of bullets and life points (remember you only start with three of each). Also, the person who is coming last places the helipad (you can choose the optional rule of NOT doing this, which I would recommend). Thus potentially you could sit on the centre town square, play solitaire with yourself whilst everyone goes and tries to kill Zombies, then when the helipad comes out place it close to you (or far away from everyone else), then roll through with your fresh 3 bullets and 3 life points and win the game. Thus, the whole course of the game is pointless until the helipad comes out, then if you place it close you can win in 2-3 turns (even though you've done nothing all game).


No, its a case of do nothing and then die horribly, repeatedly, as the others gang up on him as he fails to make any progress towards the pad! Also prior to that just send your D6 zombies in his direction - The town centre isn't sacred ground. Actually the best tactic is to not kill him just erode him down to one life and leave him in that condition so when the pad turns up hes in no fit state to get there. (also suicide teleport can get other players towards a centrally located pad if they don't think they can get 25 kills.). A 'sitter' is in no better position than anyone else - the one nearest the pad is always going to have an 'eat me' sign on his back.

As a previous poster noted you can use your tiles to stop the pad being near the square (and hopefully force a placement near you). Also block him off if he starts moving towards a potential pad site prior to the draw.

Yes there is a large random element to the game, it is suppose to be a fun game after all, but, despite its tagline, it certainly isn't 'a No-Brainer'
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Specific weapons are hard to get, but weapons in general are not


Sorry, I respectfully disagree. In all the games I have played weapons have been difficult to get. The strategy of discarding weapons that are far away is recognised, and is used, but then waiting and hoping for a weapon nearby is not effective. On top of this when you finally do get a weapon it is of very small use, and the bullets/life you have expended to get to that specific point (even if it is close) is not worth prioritising for the small bonus the weapon provides.

Quote:
Progress can be made but isn't easy.


I agree 'progress' (in the sense of killing Zombies) can be made, and is not easy, as you say. Though again the sense of progress is lost when you lose half your Zombies, when the 'solitaire' player places the helipad far from where you are, and when you've gone out on a limb to kill 23 Zombies and then lose to someone who had killed 2 or 3 by not reaching the helipad. It feels as though all the supposed 'progress' you have made throughout a relatively long game has been all for nought. Like you have wasted your time killing zombies (perhaps rather unsuccessfully) because you've been beaten by someone who stood back and watched. All that maneouvring, card playing, zombie killing, slowing other players down, the whole process of the game can be lost in a few simple moves.

Quote:
Try moving zombies off the counters in advance andor into the street


A good idea in theory, but with opponents trying to block you in it is not easy to do. I don't know when others are 'not' being negative? Isn't that one of the aims of the game, to screw each other over? Generally when someone sees you going for an item they will try and move the Zombies in your way, making it difficult to get those items. I agree with what you say, I just haven't found that it works to well in our games.


 
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Mark K.
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For the problem of hard-to-get weapons I suggest the zombies 3.5 expansion. This card only expansion is a real blast and deals with this problem. There are several cards where you do not to have in a specific building in order to get a weapon.

After some plays of zombies, I still like this game. I pull it out every once in a while if everyone is in the mood for some mindless fun, we even plan to mix all our expansion together and start a 10 player zombie extravanza. Any suggestion for team rules are welcome
 
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wynter blaine
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i have to say that i disagree with all of u because i really love this game. i just recently bought the 2 edition and had a blast because my group could make rules for it. i think this game has a hidden perk with it
 
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Kevin Mosley
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I'm a little late joining this conversation, but I have to disagree as well. I love Zombies!!! and I own all the expansions.
However, if you are looking for a serious game with well thought out rules, you'll want to give this one a pass.
If you're a die hard euro gamer, chances are you'll scoff at it as well.

But if you're just looking for pure random fun and enjoy shafting your neighbor (and laughing about it when he inevitably shafts you back) then this game is a blast.

While everything said in the original post is true to a certain extent, it's not really fair to criticize the game for not being what it wasn't meant to be.
It's meant to be a fun, light, beer and pretzels game. And at that, it excels.

Zombies!!! is as fun as you make it, and you can make it incredibly fun.
If you want to sit on the start tile and play solitaire while everyone else is having fun though, then you deserve to be bored. Shame on you. Get out there and blast some zombies with your shotgun!

And don't forget, if you die, you come back at full health with a fresh clip of ammo!
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Skeletor
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Whoa it has been a long time since I have visited the Zombie boards.

I am going to have to agree with alot of points made but the disclaimer in the rules are if you don't like them make up your own and with the variant I play for this game it kicks major butt.

Bascially you have a 50% chance to find a weapon/item in any building.

I have vehicles to mow down zombies.

and the zombie pool is eliminated all together. It is about first getting to the helicopter. thats it. Second place is who has kill the most Zombies.

There are hundreds of sceanrios and variant I would reccomend giving them a shot to make the game fun. But I have to agree the rules straight outthe box suck but thank god for places like BGG to help us make crappy games great.

Heck I even use the minis for a Heroscape Zombie invasion game
 
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Walter Owzarski
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Howdy!

While I can kinda see the points that the original poster has made, the tedium of the game is due mostly to what people consider important. The destination, or the journey there. Personally, I have the original Widescreen edition (sans manual, thanks to one Mr. C. Suess), and have always had a good time of playing the game with my friends. Heck, we even had an 8 person game using bottlecaps for the other players and noting zombie kills on a white (dry-erase) board! As for the lack of strategy, well, luck does dictate what cards you get, but you still can discard to try to improve your lot. Nothing like having your plans dashed by the impetuous person across from you with a brain freeze! Austypants...

Lack of weapons, well, it's a matter of priority. You CAN move zombies out of the way in buildings. A little collusion with other players (a favorable adrenaline rush goes far), and you'll have a clear path, simulating a zombie distraction. Also, don't forget that one can keep their cards until just before their turn and then spring their "one per turn" card on the others before playing a second at the start of your turn. Devastating, those two card volleys.

The one part of the rules that I disagree with most, is that of the 25 zombies = win condition. Is the town suddenly cleared now that 25 zombies have been killed and secured by a single person? Is it supposed to represent an average? (6 players, average of 25 zombies apiece = 150 zombies. Well under the smallest town's population cap. Especially one with 4 movie theaters!). Other than that, I would recommend this game to anyone with a hint of devious humor that might delight in sending another player to their messy, tragic, and probably justly deserved doom (It will become a matter of revenge. Oh yes.).

8/10 Only due to simplicity and lack of "roleplay" aspects.
 
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Stephen Ashworth
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Having played this game several times one thing keeps coming up in our games is the card Slight Miscalculation. The thing that we can't agree on (and causes loads of arguements)is the fact that this card contradicts the ruling that states that there can only be one zombie in one space at any time, ever.
The issue that keeps coming up from one of our gamers is that this card states that you double the zombies in any building and what he keeps saying is that if a building already contains zombies you double these up so that it ends up with two zombies per square, and what everybody says is in the rules above.
So you can see our problem and can anyone help in this matter and put it to rest because it this enjoyable game into a shouting match whichtakes the fun out of playing games
 
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Randall Silver
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Under no circumstances, ever, can there be more than one zombie on a single space. So if the card "slight miscalculation" is played, it doubles the amount of zombies until you just can't put more there.
If that means that only one zombie gets added: that player should have kept the card 'till a more useful situation.

There you go!
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Mark Pearson
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I think the original post to this thread is a little harsh, but for the most part accurate. I love this game but after a good few hours of being torn to shreds by hordes of undead or mercilessly obliterated by your 'friends' it can get a little tiresome.

What makes this game great though is the art work and the little plastic figures (that sounds really trite when put down in text but is never the less true.)
This, however, is also a problem, unless you have a spare room or don't mind eating your cornflakes with miniature zombies for company the game needs to be played in a single hit.

The producers have really gone to town with the expansions and again there is something about those little boxes full of cards and slightly different plastic zombies that inspire an intangible warm feeling inside.

For ages we have been planning to do a co-op game with all the expansions in a massive town/military base/school/haunted woods affair. The though of having an entire floor of the house carpeted in zombie tiles is appealing, But will be bothered? Who knows?
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Marshall Miller
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So my thinking, is that if you die, loose 5 zombies. If you are on the helipad tile when someone enters w/o zombies on tile, score 15 points. If you are not on the tile, score points equal to 10 minus the number of tiles away you are (orthagonally). Game ends when helicopter takes off.

Another option is to include all the non-building-specific-weapons in the deck. Make a second deck of the building-specific-weapons. If you end your turn in a building, draw an extra card from the building-specific deck. If it allows you to take a weapon, take it. If not, tough luck. Keep in mind, its risky to stay in buildings because your movement is limited.
 
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Aaron White
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I know I am late for this discussion, plus there are several points covered above. But I just wanted to share as I have been playing the iOS version of this game and I am keen to buy the physical board game.

I agree with certain points from the review, but I disagree with how weapons are gathered being a bad thing. This gives a lot of meaning to the tiles in the game, and gives the players a reason for moving around the board until the Helipad arrives.

Regarding the Helipad, I believe the last player gets to play this tile as an offset for going last. If the other players did not play their tiles correctly to prevent the last player positioning himself near the Helipad, then how could you fault that player for making the decision to place it nearby?

What I am curious about is the comments about a player doing solitaire play in the starting space until the Helipad arrives - how do they do this? Do they skip their turn, or do they just move backwards and forwards in the middle of the board? The reason I ask is, the games I have played on the iOS version are mostly won by destroying 25 zombies. The Helipad seems like the more difficult win condition.

I appreciate your revew as a counterbalance to my enthusiasm, but I also appreciate what the Zombies!!! game represents with its numerous figures and city tile placement, so I will still be buying this one.

All the best!
 
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Lee Nicholas
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Yes. Thank you thank you thank you. It is very rare for me to find a game I absolutely dislike unless it's like Candyland or something... But I would rather play Candy Land 100 times in a row than this game again. I found it thoroughly unenjoyable. Spot-on review.
 
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