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Subject: 2 player: fun but... rss

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Isley
United States
Lawrence
Kansas
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I just wanted to say I've played a few games of this two player (never with more) and think it is great. My one concern is that it seems to not be "citadels" so much as "who can guess right with the assassin most". Which is fine, there is a lot of fun bluffing elements going on with picking the assassin, but it does kind of suck that everything else going on in the game doesn't seem to matter if you lose more turns than your opponent.

Let's say you take 12 turns to build 8 buildings. If you lose 2 turns to the assassin and your opponent loses 4 turns, is there any way he can win?

So am I wrong? Or in the two player game is it always about the first player taking the assassin and then having a fifty fifty shot to make the next player lose a turn?
 
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Jim Cote
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If you guess wrong, you are basically giving up any special ability you could have otherwise gotten. So if you choose the Assassin every turn for a 12-turn game, you will get 24 actions and 12 special abilities. Your opponent will get 18 actions and 18 special abilities. In my mind, that's pretty much break even. You need to rely on more than the 50/50 Assassin "guess" to play effectively.
 
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Mike Adams
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ekted wrote:
If you guess wrong, you are basically giving up any special ability you could have otherwise gotten. So if you choose the Assassin every turn for a 12-turn game, you will get 24 actions and 12 special abilities. Your opponent will get 18 actions and 18 special abilities. In my mind, that's pretty much break even. You need to rely on more than the 50/50 Assassin "guess" to play effectively.


'Tis true.

The more 2 and 3 player games of Citadels I have played, the less the Assassin has been used. Eventually we switched to using the Witch most of the time, and that ends up being used infrequently. It makes the decision more interesting. If you use the Witch and miss, you don't even get to build that turn, but if you hit, you steal their special ability which can be a huge bonus at just the right moment. Missing out on a build in a 2 player game is much less significant than in a 4+ player game, so the risk is less substantial.

At least in the 2 player game, I think the Assassin tends to just drag the game out longer with less specific tactical thinking allowed.
 
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Javi Hernández
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I see another major problem with two players: Has anyone ever been able to use the Warlord in a two player game?
I usually play the Spanish 2d Edition and maybe I'm dumb myself, but I believe a player has to be really daydreamingsnore to be attacked by the Warlord.
If I'm the first player to choose character, let's presume I take the Warlord, the other player will be able to choose either the Assasin and kill the Warlord or take the Bishop who's inmune to the Warlord (if one of those characters was the first to be discarded there's no choice, but the problem remains).
Of course, the second player do not know which character was chosen by the first player, but it's not that difficult to guess when he receives 6 characters cards and the Warlord is not there...
Whatever, am I the only one to have that problem, am I not playing right? Maybe the Spanish edition mechanics of the 2 player games are different from others (nevertheless I doubt it).

Thanks (and sorry for my English).
 
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Chris Geggus
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Brentwood,
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Firstly I must say that this game should only really be played by 6+ players. However I fully understand and sympathise why many people are left with having to play with 2 players only.
The Warlord should be selected as often as any other role. If your opponent is low on gold and/or your buildings aren't at risk, why bother with the Warlord? Perhaps the very unpredictability is to your benefit. If you have at least 1 military building you may be tempted, but I do think that if you mix choices in this game you can do better. All personalities have their own inherent strength and the Warlord is no better than any other. If your opponent cannot work out your thinking you are already ahead on points.
Personally I select the card that my opponent will not expect me to choose. Easier said than done, but by playing more randomly you have a better chance of not being killed or robbed. Taking the obvious card at the wrong(right) time is almost a suicide note. We've all done it out of greed for money or the scent of victory is in our nose, but if you can resist the temptation then you have more chance of survival.
Not a perfect way to win - there isn't one, but hopefully you can compete more fully in more games. Good luck.
 
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Jim Cote
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Usher wrote:
I see another major problem with two players: Has anyone ever been able to use the Warlord in a two player game?


I find the character mix incredibly well-balanced. Remember that you have to pay cost-1 to use the Warlord. Usually, you can't afford to zap a big building AND build. So you are again sacrificing something to get something. I like to mix my building sizes if possible so that I always have something really hard to destroy. Also, if you haven't drawn any/many blue buildings, then taking the Bishop gives up a special power. You have to be willing to change your tactics with the situation. If I have 4 yellow buildings, it's really tough not to try for the King.
 
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Javi Hernández
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Quote:
I find the character mix incredibly well-balanced. Remember that you have to pay cost-1 to use the Warlord. Usually, you can't afford to zap a big building AND build. So you are again sacrificing something to get something.


How right this is! Now I've played much more and have been able to use the Warlord but, as you suggest, it doesn't pay always. Also, sometimes it's better to sacrifice a building than prepare a defense against the Warlord, because somewhere else you may gain something more precious. So let the opponent play the Warlord... vengeance will be terrible.angry

How good this game is, even with two players (I insist). I recognize though, that with more than three players it's like a different game.
 
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