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Subject: Patch with no button cost. rss

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Mauro Fiorelli
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Hi, as component, I found a patch that costs zero button ...
Is it a printing mistake?

Thx
Mauro
 
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P. oeppel
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No, why should it be? It still costs 3 time units...
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Mauro Fiorelli
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pinoeppel wrote:
No, why should it be? It still costs 3 time units...


... there' re others patches that cost 3 time units but they also cost buttons .... so I was wondering if it was a printing error of that patch.

 
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Mathue Faulkner
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Gedeone wrote:
pinoeppel wrote:
No, why should it be? It still costs 3 time units...


... there' re others patches that cost 3 time units but they also cost buttons .... so I was wondering if it was a printing error of that patch.


Those other patches are generally better in some other way, whether it be the size, the shape (the 'no button' one is a bit awkward), or the income.

It's a good patch, but the shape holds it back IMO. Depending where I'm at in the game, the button cost may not be as big of a factor as the size/shape/time cost....

Regardless, not a typo.
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Alex Yeager
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Not a typo; that piece has existed across prototypes that I've seen.

Alex Yeager
Mayfair Games
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Justin Parker
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I thought this was a cool "Easter Egg" (the word Easter here is intended) that was a Christian reference Jesus dying on the cross for our sins (no cost to us = no button cost), and rising from the dead 3 days later (3 days = 3 time units on the board).
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Ryan C
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jparkerweb wrote:
I thought this was a cool "Easter Egg" (the word Easter here is intended) that was a Christian reference Jesus dying on the cross for our sins (no cost to us = no button cost), and rising from the dead 3 days later (3 days = 3 time units on the board).


We just played tonight for the first time and noticed that too.
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Dapperghast Meowregard
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pinoeppel wrote:
No, why should it be? It still costs 3 time units...


(Gogo gadget necro)

Just picked up the game and in my copy at least it doesn't cost "0 [button]," the button section is just totally blank, so it's not unreasonable to think that literally the only patch without a button symbol might've been a printing error.
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Russ Williams
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Dapperghast wrote:
Just picked up the game and in my copy at least it doesn't cost "0 [button]," the button section is just totally blank, so it's not unreasonable to think that literally the only patch without a button symbol might've been a printing error.

True...

On the one hand, it seems a very common convention in games (for better or worse) that costs (and often other values) which are 0 are represented by blank space, instead of by an explicitly printed "0".

But on the other hand, this specific Patchwork piece is unique (the only one with cost 0), whereas in most games which don't explicitly print "0" for 0 cost pieces/locations, those pieces/locations/etc are rather common, and so they wanted to avoid having a bunch of explicitly zeroes printed all over the place, cluttering up the graphic design for what is (in those games) a typical/common/default value.


That said, when my wife and I played for the first time, it did not even occur to us to wonder if there was a misprint; it just seemed evident to us that the button cost for this piece is 0.
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Dapperghast Meowregard
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russ wrote:

On the one hand, it seems a very common convention in games (for better or worse) that costs (and often other values) which are 0 are represented by blank space, instead of by an explicitly printed "0".


Do you have any examples of that? Not trying to be all "Citation needed" or anything, just curious since it seems like the opposite is true in my experience. Twilight Imperium has planets with 0 influence/resources that have the number, Netrunner has 0 credit cards, I'd have to check but if there are 0 food cards in Evolution I believe they have a 0 on them, I don't think Twilight Struggle has any 0 ops cards, but the scoring cards have a blank ops number specifically to indicate you can't use them for ops. Magic's a bit of a mixed bag, something that costs nothing will use 0, but if a thing costs 1 blue mana, it just uses that and the colorless symbol is left off, and similar to TS, cards with blank mana costs can't be played at all unless you do something that lets you bypass paying the mana cost.

Though I think Kemet works that way, though in that case it's framed as "DI cards are free unless they cost a moniez." so costs are sort of the exception there.

Really I think the main issue is that there's still a space for where the button cost is supposed to go. If they'd used a shorter tag with just time and no empty space I think it'd be a lot clearer.
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Russ Williams
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Dapperghast wrote:
russ wrote:

On the one hand, it seems a very common convention in games (for better or worse) that costs (and often other values) which are 0 are represented by blank space, instead of by an explicitly printed "0".


Do you have any examples of that? Not trying to be all "Citation needed" or anything, just curious since it seems like the opposite is true in my experience.

No problem.

E.g. I've been playing a ton of Greed lately (which is probably what prompted my remark). Some cards cost $5000 or $10000 or whatever to play the card. These explicitly say e.g. "Cost $5000" on the card. Most cards do not have a cost, and instead of saying "Cost $0" on the majority of cards, that space on the card is left blank.

Looking at my shelves now, I notice also Prêt-à-Porter; some building cards have a cost to take them, which is shown by a number and dollar bill in the upper left corner, while other buildings cost 0, which is shown by an empty upper left corner.

Land cards in Magic: The Gathering normally have no cost to play them, and the upper left of the card is blank, but some special land types do have a cost printed there. E.g. see https://mtgportfolio.com/cards?query=swamp ... Interestingly and inconsistently, spells with no cost seem to have "0" explicitly printed in the upper right! (It's been many years since I played Magic, so corrections or additional info about this example are welcome.)

For a different example unrelated to costs specifically: in the German solitaire rules of Enemy Action: Ardennes, certain key locations on the map for the (non-player = AI) Allied player have a "hold value" (how likely the AI is to stay in the hex instead of retreating). There are printed values from 1 to 6, and "A hex with no printed value is considered to have a Hold Value of 0."

PS: A tangential generalization of my comment is not about zeroes specifically, but about "the most common or default value". E.g. in K2, it "normally" costs 1 movement point to enter a space; spaces which cost more have a movement cost explicitly printed in them, but spaces which cost 1 have nothing printed in them.

In hindsight, perhaps "very common" was an overstatement. But certainly it exists in multiple diverse examples (especially in the generalized "whatever the default value is" version), at least.
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