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Shadows of Brimstone: City of the Ancients» Forums » Rules

Subject: Darkstone Bullets & Rolling for Corruption Hits rss

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Darryl Gardner
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Howdy Folks,

I was looking for a consensus opinion on Darkstone Bullets and if you should be rolling for potential corruption hits at the end of the adventure.

The artifact you find has a Darkstone symbol on it, but it says to discard it to get the bonus for the rest of the adventure. By discarding the item, you no longer have the Darkstone symbol in your inventory. So you are getting the benefit of it, but you don't technically have a DS symbol that would require you to roll at the end of the adventure.

The town item also shows a Darkstone symbol on it, but it makes no reference to being able to be used at any time in the future on any adventure, only for the next adventure. So if you add that 'item' to your character for the adventure, do you still have a symbol at the end of the adventure?

My personal feeling, thematically, is that you are using and holding onto these DS bullets throughout the adventure and should probably be rolling for potential corruption hits. But the fact that the artifact is having you discard the DS symbol is making me question how this should work.

What do you folks think?
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Anders Gabrielsson
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I would rule that you don't need to roll for them.

You roll for stuff you're holding at the end of the adventure. Since the bullets are spent, you're not holding them any longer. It's the same as if you found an artifact with a darkstone icon early in the adventure, and then gave it away to another character near the end. You carried it for most of the time, but you don't need to roll for it.
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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FencePost wrote:
Howdy Folks,

I was looking for a consensus opinion on Darkstone Bullets and if you should be rolling for potential corruption hits at the end of the adventure.

The artifact you find has a Darkstone symbol on it, but it says to discard it to get the bonus for the rest of the adventure. By discarding the item, you no longer have the Darkstone symbol in your inventory. So you are getting the benefit of it, but you don't technically have a DS symbol that would require you to roll at the end of the adventure.

The town item also shows a Darkstone symbol on it, but it makes no reference to being able to be used at any time in the future on any adventure, only for the next adventure. So if you add that 'item' to your character for the adventure, do you still have a symbol at the end of the adventure?

My personal feeling, thematically, is that you are using and holding onto these DS bullets throughout the adventure and should probably be rolling for potential corruption hits. But the fact that the artifact is having you discard the DS symbol is making me question how this should work.

What do you folks think?


The way I play is I don't count them towards corruption at the end of the adventure as you are no longer carrying them. As an analogy, you can carry a darkstone until the last room of an adventure, then use it to to attach something to one of your weapons before the final battle, then it no longer counts towards your total at the end. I think of the end of adventure corruption roll as a way to measure how much darkness you are leaving the mine with, not how much you have carried while down there. That's my take anyway. I would, however, count them towards the total you are carrying while in the mines if needed to determine monster targeting etc.
 
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Tim Robinson
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We rolled after each adventure as it seems like that's the point of the dark stone icon. Are you suggesting that you could just hold them in your in inventory and roll for them in that case? I guess that makes sense too but never thought to hold on to them.

Edit for spelling error due to autocorrect.
 
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Darryl Gardner
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timmontana wrote:
We rolled after each adventure as it seems like that's the point of the dark stone icon.


That was kind of my thinking. Though I totally see the other side too, the item is useless at the end of the adventure, so dropping the leftovers to not take a potential hit makes sense.

I also agree with the use of DS bullets for targeting and taking Corruption via a growing dread card before the last encounter. Though I mostly find it weird how the artifact is a card with a symbol that is discard upon 'activation' (which one could argue wouldn't count towards targeting or corruption via growing dread) and the DS bullets from town have a symbol that indicates that it stays with you throughout the adventure.

It makes sense for the card you find to be something that you can keep because if you already have DS bullets, finding more would be redundant.
 
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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FencePost wrote:
timmontana wrote:
We rolled after each adventure as it seems like that's the point of the dark stone icon.


That was kind of my thinking. Though I totally see the other side too, the item is useless at the end of the adventure, so dropping the leftovers to not take a potential hit makes sense.

I also agree with the use of DS bullets for targeting and taking Corruption via a growing dread card before the last encounter. Though I mostly find it weird how the artifact is a card with a symbol that is discard upon 'activation' (which one could argue wouldn't count towards targeting or corruption via growing dread) and the DS bullets from town have a symbol that indicates that it stays with you throughout the adventure.

It makes sense for the card you find to be something that you can keep because if you already have DS bullets, finding more would be redundant.


I basically play the card as if I discard it at the end of the final fight and before leaving the mines if I used the bullets during the adventure. That way it counts for targeting/growing dread but not for end of adventure corruption rolls.
 
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Philip Jelley
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reverendunclebastard wrote:
FencePost wrote:
timmontana wrote:
We rolled after each adventure as it seems like that's the point of the dark stone icon.


That was kind of my thinking. Though I totally see the other side too, the item is useless at the end of the adventure, so dropping the leftovers to not take a potential hit makes sense.

I also agree with the use of DS bullets for targeting and taking Corruption via a growing dread card before the last encounter. Though I mostly find it weird how the artifact is a card with a symbol that is discard upon 'activation' (which one could argue wouldn't count towards targeting or corruption via growing dread) and the DS bullets from town have a symbol that indicates that it stays with you throughout the adventure.

It makes sense for the card you find to be something that you can keep because if you already have DS bullets, finding more would be redundant.


I basically play the card as if I discard it at the end of the final fight and before leaving the mines if I used the bullets during the adventure. That way it counts for targeting/growing dread but not for end of adventure corruption rolls.


I think the dark stone bullet card is discarded when it is activated, therefore is not present for corruption at the end of the adventure. I keep the card as a reminder of the +1 damage, but turned 90 degrees to show that it has been used. I do the same with other once per adventure or once per turn items.

Philip
 
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Derek VDG
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If you use the Darkstone bullets, you have technically discarded their card, and thus they do not apply their darkstone icon for end of mission corruption tests. If you have chosen not to use/discard the darkstone bullets, and therefore retain the card, you have a card/item with the darkstone icon and thus must roll for that item.
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Jee Fu
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What would be the point to the icon if you didn't have to roll for them, if you used them, at the end of the adventure - in case you wanted to keep them lying around in your inventory? Why in the world anyone do that ever do that when you can just buy them in town between every mission?

The mechanical context heavily implies that the buff you get counts as a Darkstone at the end of the mission. The thematics imply it even more so - you're literally handling refined Darkstone and combusting gun powder around it for several hours at a time.

- Jee
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Tim Robinson
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Inspector Jee wrote:
What would be the point to the icon if you didn't have to roll for them, if you used them, at the end of the adventure - in case you wanted to keep them lying around in your inventory? Why in the world anyone do that ever do that when you can just buy them in town between every mission?

The mechanical context heavily implies that the buff you get counts as a Darkstone at the end of the mission. The thematics imply it even more so - you're literally handling refined Darkstone and combusting gun powder around it for several hours at a time.

- Jee


I can see both sides but for my group we will continue to roll for them at the end of the mission we bought them and subsequently used them. I agree with Jee.
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Adam Canning
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Inspector Jee wrote:
What would be the point to the icon if you didn't have to roll for them, if you used them, at the end of the adventure - in case you wanted to keep them lying around in your inventory? Why in the world anyone do that ever do that when you can just buy them in town between every mission?


Because you've already used some and want to save them for the next mission. Or because you drew them as loot for the final encounter.

Town bought Dark Stone Bullets cost $200 and a Darkstone. So you don't lose anything by taking spare ones back to town [Other than the roughly 1 in 6 chance of a corruption.]
 
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Angelus Seniores
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i think corruption is supposed to be a slow, lingering effect and has little/no effect on short term, which could explain you dont need to roll for darkstone items that you no longer have by the end of a mission. if you acquire darkstone during the mission and use it for an ability you wouldnt roll for it either at the end of the mission, do you? otherwise you need to track it all somehow.

if corruption happens faster it would make more sense to roll once for it as soon as you acquire it and/or roll for corruption at the start of a mission instead of at the end.
 
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Brian C
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I don't know.. it feels kind of gamey if you don't have to roll for DS Bullets at the end of an Adventure in which you used them in.

But then again, if you carried any item card with the Dark Stone symbol on it, and spent that card during a mission (of those that must be discarded after use), the same would apply. An artifact in this case would simply go to the discard pile and wouldn't be in the corruption discussion at the end of the mission.

So by rules, since it says to discard upon use, it seems Anders and company would be right, but it still feels gamey to me..
 
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Jee Fu
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dahak wrote:
Inspector Jee wrote:
What would be the point to the icon if you didn't have to roll for them, if you used them, at the end of the adventure - in case you wanted to keep them lying around in your inventory? Why in the world anyone do that ever do that when you can just buy them in town between every mission?


Because you've already used some and want to save them for the next mission. Or because you drew them as loot for the final encounter.

Town bought Dark Stone Bullets cost $200 and a Darkstone. So you don't lose anything by taking spare ones back to town [Other than the roughly 1 in 6 chance of a corruption.]

Sure, if you find DS Bullets in the Artifacts deck and you've already used some then the icon on the card would come into play. That's rare, but possible.

So what about the icon on the ones in town? I don't see a reason to buy DS Bullets in town and not use them in the very next adventure. It seems to me that had they intended DS Bullets to not corrupt you if you used them then they would've just left off the icon entirely. It would be less confusing, and you would only miss out on 1/6th of a corruption point on those rare times you were both using them already, and managed to pull one from the deck that no one in your posse wanted to use immediately.

Given this context and inductive logic, the presence of the icon - to me - heavily implies that it counts whether you use them or not.

As a side note, everyone I've ever played with has deemed DS Bullets overpowered for its price and availability. It could be true; I'm not sold on that opinion yet tho. What I do know is that if the DS icon didn't count in 95% of the cases a Hero benefited from the item, you would certainly be pushing my opinion in that direction.

- Jee
 
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Adam Canning
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Inspector Jee wrote:
I don't see a reason to buy DS Bullets in town and not use them in the very next adventure.


Stockpiling against uncertainty.

Town (or the Blacksmiths) may not be there in the intermission after the next adventure.

Also we did once have an adventure where one of the characters with them never actually got to shoot anything. And so never needed to discard them to get the bonus.

It also future proofs the item in case in the future we get chained adventures with no restoccking between.

If they didn't put a DS icon on it people wouldn't be risking anything stocking up multiple adventures worth in one town visit.
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Jee Fu
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dahak wrote:
Inspector Jee wrote:
I don't see a reason to buy DS Bullets in town and not use them in the very next adventure.


Stockpiling against uncertainty.

Town (or the Blacksmiths) may not be there in the intermission after the next adventure.

Also we did once have an adventure where one of the characters with them never actually got to shoot anything. And so never needed to discard them to get the bonus.

It also future proofs the item in case in the future we get chained adventures with no restoccking between.

If they didn't put a DS icon on it people wouldn't be risking anything stocking up multiple adventures worth in one town visit.

I just don't see this being enough of an issue to warrant an entire icon to discourage it unless it also affected you when you used them. Dark Stone is hard to get. Even if there were no icon, I still wouldn't risk burning a bunch at once on the off-chance that I wouldn't be able to hit up the Blacksmith again. It just isn't worth not having the raw Dark Stone around, in case I want to socket something I find in the next adventure or whatever.

I mean you could be right - the RAW makes no mention of static buffs that you receive from Dark Stone Icon consumables. But my instincts are telling me to keep the buff radioactive, in addition to the card.

- Jee
 
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