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Subject: River U-Turns rss

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Thomas Eastside, Esq.
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The river cannot u-turn at all at any time.
 
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Nick Fisk
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I remember reading an FAQ somewhere that said it just stopped "immediate" U-turns.

However, we've always played "no u-turns of any sort" and can't being ourselves to adjust



N.
 
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Nick Case
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This issue has been kicked to death several times, but imho, this series of exchanges is the most comprehensive answer with cute little diagrams to illustrate the point;

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/751517#751517
 
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Thomas Eastside, Esq.
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I've read that series of posts previously. The rules state: "a river tile may not be placed so that the river makes a "U" turn." I've played hundreds of Carc games and I have never had an issue with this.
 
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A L D A R O N
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It's quite simple if you just remember that the spirit of the rule is that you should not place a river tile in such a way that it will ever become impossible to continue the river.

More formally:

Aldaron's Rules Summary* wrote:
A river tile may only be placed adjacent to another river tile if it extends the river from that tile (only). A tile may not be placed if it could prevent any subsequently drawn river tiles from meeting this requirement.

* Posted on my website and on BGG:
http://www.aldaron.com/sciencegames/carcassonne/ (PDF)
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/fileinfo.php?fileid=18007
 
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Thomas Eastside, Esq.
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Quote:
It's quite simple if you just remember that the spirit of the rule is that you should not place a river tile in such a way that it will ever become impossible to continue the river.


I am in complete agreement. I guess I never played with people that would place a tile in such manner as to cause eventual placement issues.
 
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Grzegorz Kobiela
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IIRC, you may place right-straight-right in the official computer game. The only thing forbidden is an immediate u-turn.
 
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Thomas Eastside, Esq.
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U-turns for traffic are usually defined by an "immediate 180" while a "right, straight, right" is "two 90 degree turns", or "two right turns", not "a U-turn".


Personally, I don't think that the rule is vague at all. In regards to your traffic example, I often drive on divided highways. So, in essence if I were to U-turn on a divided highway, I would turn left, drive straight for a bit, and then turn left again. This is still a U-turn. The traffic example you give also leaves much to be desired by definition (what is immediate?).

The rules explicitly state no U-turns, so my take is that regardless of how many intervening pieces there are, you can't bend the river back on itself.
 
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DAVID MERCER
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Dreadnaut wrote:
The rules explicitly state no U-turns, so my take is that regardless of how many intervening pieces there are, you can't bend the river back on itself.


That is my take on it, too.thumbsup

I don't see why people want rivers bending back on themselves, anyway. If they want to minimize the spread of the river, why play with it at all? I want the river to flow right down the middle of my map.
 
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Thomas Eastside, Esq.
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IOW, your take is that no matter how long the block, turning right and turning right again is a U-turn even if it puts you on a different road?

Or that going West in New York, then South to Virginia, then East to the shore is a U-turn?

By that logic wouldn't circling the block be no turn at all?


By definition (taken from Webster.com), a u-turn is "a turn resembling the letter U". So, yes, your example would be an example of a u-turn (albeit on a large scale). You could have a "right" turn of the river and then several straight river tiles between, the next river turn tile you placed would have to be placed as a "left" turn. You could not do a "right" turn because that would bend the river back on itself, which is illegal.

Circling the block would be a circle and not a u-turn. Of course you could think of it is multiple u-turns, one after another.
 
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Thomas Eastside, Esq.
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You're circle comment also gave me an idea. A circle is a circle. So if I drive south from Ohio to Tennessee, then east from Tennesse to Virginia, North from Virginia to Pennsylvania, and then Pennsylvania back to Ohio, I have completed a circle (regardless of scale). Similarly, a u-turn is a u-turn (regardless of what preconceived notions you have placed on how "large" a u-turn is allowed to be).
 
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