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Subject: New appreciation for this game... rss

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Craig Truesdell
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I just started playing the newer game by Ares and I have to give this old game some credit. I especially like the scenario that has no armies just Nazguls and the Fellowship. While the army aspect has its moments, I am just has happy ignoring it. The good guys are so weak, there isn't much that really changes. So Sauron has to decide between attacking strongholds and searching for the ring which is fun.

I also like the guardian aspect, that adds some interesting elements too.
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Dan Cavaliere
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I've said this before Craig - for it's time this game was done well and does have some interesting mechanics and gameplay.

I feel very lucky to own it and hope to find the Gondor & Rohan additions (that I think were in the White Box) someday.
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Lee Trowbridge
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ctcharger wrote:
I just started playing the newer game by Ares and I have to give this old game some credit. I especially like the scenario that has no armies just Nazguls and the Fellowship. While the army aspect has its moments, I am just has happy ignoring it. The good guys are so weak, there isn't much that really changes. So Sauron has to decide between attacking strongholds and searching for the ring which is fun.

I also like the guardian aspect, that adds some interesting elements too.


Agree. And for me, it was one of a very few wargames I managed to get non-wargamers to try out.
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Rob Rob
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It was a near miss but certainly a glorious attempt. For its time, heck even for today, it incorporated some amazingly thematic concepts and the art was A+.
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David Gray
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Gamer DC wrote:
I've said this before Craig - for it's time this game was done well and does have some interesting mechanics and gameplay.

I feel very lucky to own it and hope to find the Gondor & Rohan additions (that I think were in the White Box) someday.


The two folio games dealt with the siege of Minas Tirith and the battle against Sauron at the end of the Second Age.
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Mark Riley
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If you search the web you can find rules for hidden movement for the Fellowship and a few other rules which fix weaknesses such as packing Mordor with Nazgul - taken together they make the full game really great.
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GodRob
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While primarily used for killing vampires, a wooden stake to the heart is also highly effective against most other opponents.
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I remember playing this again after I first got War of the Ring (First Edition) so I could reevaluate my rating. Originaly rated a 9, it is still different enough and fun enough to maintain an 8 rating for me.

I also remember the character game being more fun than I thought it would be. Not sure if I ever played it in my younger years, we probably just dove right into the army game.
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Dan Cavaliere
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graydo wrote:
Gamer DC wrote:
I've said this before Craig - for it's time this game was done well and does have some interesting mechanics and gameplay.

I feel very lucky to own it and hope to find the Gondor & Rohan additions (that I think were in the White Box) someday.


The two folio games dealt with the siege of Minas Tirith and the battle against Sauron at the end of the Second Age.


Thanks David - I had really thought there were Rohan & Gondor battles but that makes me even more interested. I wonder where I might find those?
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David Gray
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They were sold separately as folios but I've never actually seen those. A lot of packs were sold which included both folios with the War of the Ring game. That's how I bought mine.

Gamer DC wrote:
graydo wrote:
Gamer DC wrote:
I've said this before Craig - for it's time this game was done well and does have some interesting mechanics and gameplay.

I feel very lucky to own it and hope to find the Gondor & Rohan additions (that I think were in the White Box) someday.


The two folio games dealt with the siege of Minas Tirith and the battle against Sauron at the end of the Second Age.


Thanks David - I had really thought there were Rohan & Gondor battles but that makes me even more interested. I wonder where I might find those?
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Chris Hansen
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Gamer DC wrote:
graydo wrote:
Gamer DC wrote:
I've said this before Craig - for it's time this game was done well and does have some interesting mechanics and gameplay.

I feel very lucky to own it and hope to find the Gondor & Rohan additions (that I think were in the White Box) someday.


The two folio games dealt with the siege of Minas Tirith and the battle against Sauron at the end of the Second Age.


Thanks David - I had really thought there were Rohan & Gondor battles but that makes me even more interested. I wonder where I might find those?

When you talk about the Rohan and Gondor battles, are you perhaps thinking of this: War of the Ring: Battles of the Third Age? The two games associated with the SPI War of the Ring are the games Gondor and Sauron, both of which you can find but are rather expensive for a folio style game with Gondor typically being the more expensive of the two as it is considered by many to be the better game. Or you could look for the version of War of the Ring that had both games included of which there are 3 copies currently up for sale via eBay in the $150 range, which isn't that much more than it would cost to buy both of the folio games separately assuming you could find them.

There was an even older game that did feature Rohan, that being The Battle of Helm's Deep, but it wasn't associated with the SPI War of the Ring.
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Dan Cavaliere
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Ichirou wrote:
Gamer DC wrote:
graydo wrote:
Gamer DC wrote:
I've said this before Craig - for it's time this game was done well and does have some interesting mechanics and gameplay.

I feel very lucky to own it and hope to find the Gondor & Rohan additions (that I think were in the White Box) someday.


The two folio games dealt with the siege of Minas Tirith and the battle against Sauron at the end of the Second Age.


Thanks David - I had really thought there were Rohan & Gondor battles but that makes me even more interested. I wonder where I might find those?

When you talk about the Rohan and Gondor battles, are you perhaps thinking of this: War of the Ring: Battles of the Third Age? The two games associated with the SPI War of the Ring are the games Gondor and Sauron, both of which you can find but are rather expensive for a folio style game with Gondor typically being the more expensive of the two as it is considered by many to be the better game. Or you could look for the version of War of the Ring that had both games included of which there are 3 copies currently up for sale via eBay in the $150 range, which isn't that much more than it would cost to buy both of the folio games separately assuming you could find them.

There was an even older game that did feature Rohan, that being The Battle of Helm's Deep, but it wasn't associated with the SPI War of the Ring.


It was Gondor and Sauron as you linked there - thanks for updating me on that Chris.

My LotR collection is very 'precious' to me and I would like to add those someday. I'm currently starting to bleed my wallet with MECCG right now.....
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Craig Truesdell
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Could be just my die rolling but sieges in WOTR 2E from Ares Games just seems tedious compared to the character game here. I mean yeah we play cards and stuff but I am not really seeing the "strategy" yet.

Just getting started though...
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Lewis Goldberg
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Played SPI WotR twice in 2014. I really like this game.

Still would love to score the Sauron and Gondor folios. I had them back in the olden tymes.
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Craig Truesdell
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This is probably no way around it but when I play LOTR games, players know too much. They know about Fanghorn, they know Gandalf didn't really die (most players try to kill him as soon as possible which is odd behavior for the "good" guys), Gollum is bad, Saruman is bad, Strider is Aragorn, Elrond doesn't actually "do" anything, etc.

Not sure how to create some uncertainty in the game without making it too random. Might be fun to through a "Saruman betrays the dark lord" card in the mix. Might think twice about letting Saruman build up a huge army...

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GodRob
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I know that there is enough information online about both Sauron and Gondor where you can make your own copies.
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Chris Hansen
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ctcharger wrote:
This is probably no way around it but when I play LOTR games, players know too much. They know about Fanghorn, they know Gandalf didn't really die (most players try to kill him as soon as possible which is odd behavior for the "good" guys), Gollum is bad, Saruman is bad, Strider is Aragorn, Elrond doesn't actually "do" anything, etc.

Not sure how to create some uncertainty in the game without making it too random. Might be fun to through a "Saruman betrays the dark lord" card in the mix. Might think twice about letting Saruman build up a huge army...

One way, if you have two or three players, is to try using the SPI War of The Ring - 3 Player Hidden Movement Search Procedure rules hosted here on BGG. They do require more work for the Fellowship player, but not that much more, and they do lend more feel and tension to the game. I also highly recommend using some of the optional rules as suggested here on BGG in the files section and forum threads, as well as those put forward in Moves #39.

robertg611 wrote:
I know that there is enough information online about both Sauron and Gondor where you can make your own copies.
You're quite right, there really is enough info here on BGG alone to build the games if you wanted. You would be missing the standard rules and Gondor exclusive rules, but I think they are out there in the wild as it were. They were originally hosted on the old Tzeenchnet Tolkien site, but that site is alas gone, at least for now.

Also, if you want to use Vassal, you can get module files for both of those games as well as WoTR again via BGG from the web links: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/weblink/70506/vassal-module-wa...
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John Holden
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ctcharger wrote:
This is probably no way around it but when I play LOTR games, players know too much. They know about Fanghorn, they know Gandalf didn't really die (most players try to kill him as soon as possible which is odd behavior for the "good" guys), Gollum is bad, Saruman is bad, Strider is Aragorn, Elrond doesn't actually "do" anything, etc.

Not sure how to create some uncertainty in the game without making it too random. Might be fun to through a "Saruman betrays the dark lord" card in the mix. Might think twice about letting Saruman build up a huge army...



If you want to shake it up a bit, try some of the optional rules sets found in the Files section. While I play it solo, my favorite combination is to play it as a five-player game using the War in the North rules (which forces some action in the North, often otherwise forgotten in the game), the Expanded Three-Player rules (which helps even the odds for Saruman), and the Hidden Movement rules (which adds a degree of realism and makes things more fun in general).

One thing I like to do is roll for Saruman's allegiance much like Gollum's allegiance is rolled at the beginning of each Game Turn. But it's a bit more complicated with Saruman - basically if he rolls to ally himself with one side or the other, then that side rolls to see if they accept. Certain actions by Saruman earn him "strikes" against the acceptance rolls - for instance, making an open alliance with Sauron earns a strike against future rolls when requesting an alliance with the Fellowship and vice versa. Basically, there's a lot of ways for Saruman to earn these "strikes" (and no way to reverse them) until he eventually cheeses off both sides and then has to try to win the game for himself.

As for the strategy of killing off Gandalf, I know that it's even recommended in the Player's Notes, but I always avoid it - especially in the campaign game. Gandalf is usually desperately needed to head south and awaken Rohan and Gondor. Soon after they're mobilized, they usually need a leader there to counter the Lord of the Nazgul or Saruman (if playing with the three-player rules, Saruman becomes a formidable army leader). I just find it's too risky to kill off Gandalf since an unlucky die roll could delay Gandalf the White for six turns, and then he'll arrive waaaaay up north!
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Rob Johnson
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All the games need tuning, but after 36 years I still love to play them.

For younger Tolkien fans, who are not totally besotted with the videe nonsense, War of the Ring is tremendous fun. Sauron and Gondor are great as tactical introductions, again with some judicious mods.

Dad is always Sauron, of course. whistle Grups are just evil that way.......
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Bor Onx
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Glorfindel steals the Ring!

I think what you want can be done. Maybe not in this game, but in general. That is, let the rules reflect the uncertainty of the characters.

Give Balin a chance to to still control Moria. Let Fangorn be full of pure evil. Maybe wielding the ring is a viable strategy. Perhaps there really is another way to destroy it. Maybe Gandalf doesn't come back from the dead. Let walking the paths of the dead be a risky move.
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