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Subject: Seems quite simple - am I doing this right? rss

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orange smartie
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I ran through the first scenario today with my 10 year old son and everything happened so quickly I was wondering whether I was doing the game right or whether I had missed any important nuances.

As it was our first attempt I thought it wise to not bother with the cards (although I'm sure they add a layer of complexity). The rulebook isn't the clearest, as has been discussed elsewhere, but we took 4 units as listed on the recruitment boards (although the name of the US officer was wrong, and the board including the named German officer was a different point score from the one shown in the scenario, if I recall correctly). We rolled for initiative, Joe placed his guys first, then I did the same and we followed with a first turn. We assumed 3 order tokens, plus one blank, for the stars on the officer's tile and the recruitment board thingy.

All pretty straightforward - Joe got his recon unit adjacent to one of the possible drop interstices and happened to pick it up at the first available opportunity. Not able to op-fire (there is no option to do this unless there is an appropriately-marked tile, right?) I could not stop him from hot-footing it out of there with the stash.

We did try a few assault moves (am I right in the defender getting his ATTACK bonus plus terrain defense added to the dice, rather than unit DEFENSE score plus terrain defense?) and a unit got shot up in the hedgerows, but other than that it was a grab-it-and-scarper type affair. The vehicles didn't even really have time to figure in the game as Joe was at the edge of his deployment zone by the end of the third turn and had initiative next turn, meaning certain escape.

Does this sound about right for the first scenario? Having not used cards yet I'm not sure how much they would impact this scenario, but it's hard to see that it could last much longer. First impressions are favourable though.

Pete
 
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Lewis Karl
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Sounds like you played correctly. It's unlikely a unit could reach the baseline at the end of turn 3 having only 1 turn to move (turn 3), but is possible with a visible Recon unit (movement of 4), and if the papers drop in the upper left spot. If Germans don't have initiative on turn 4 then the vehicle can't even shoot them down.

If you had played with cards, you might have obtained an Initiative card, or other cards that could have helped. Also, both sides need to closely contest all drop spots in the first two turns.

Yet, this is more of a training scenario IMO.
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pascal bons
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It seems ok, except that you can't win the first scenario the first turn : because with german recon, you can block the objective at the end of the first turn (this is an official errata for the first scenario). I play with and without cards too, cards add a lot of chrome and aleas to the game, and making the deck (you can choose 40 cards or as the scenario) is really fun but takes a while during the setup...
With kids, or for the first game with newbies, it's a good idea to play with no cards.

[edit]Oups : my mistake, I was talking of the second scenario...
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Thomas Staudt
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Monsieur Bons wrote:
It seems ok, except that you can't win the first scenario the first turn : because with german recon, you can block the objective at the end of the first turn
...


Unless I'm missing something: Isn't the first scenario the one where you have to rescue the documents?
They come in at the end of turn 2, so it's obvious you can't win at the end of turn 1.
What am I missing?
 
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X. Nostradunwhich
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orangesmartie wrote:
I ran through the first scenario today with my 10 year old son and everything happened so quickly I was wondering whether I was doing the game right or whether I had missed any important nuances.

That seems right. HoN is designed to be simple and quick to play. You can certainly design a huge scenario if you want, but for smaller scenarios it plays quickly. So quickly that usually you can run the scenario a couple of times and thus get to play both sides of each scenario

orangesmartie wrote:
We rolled for initiative, Joe placed his guys first, then I did the same and we followed with a first turn. We assumed 3 order tokens, plus one blank, for the stars on the officer's tile and the recruitment board thingy.

You only get the star on the recruitment tile if you put a recruitment option in that space. So if you were only taking the base units on the recruitment tile, you would only get the orders for the officer (2 stars for the starting scenarios) plus the one bluff token.

That could explain why things went SO quickly

orangesmartie wrote:
All pretty straightforward - Joe got his recon unit adjacent to one of the possible drop interstices and happened to pick it up at the first available opportunity. Not able to op-fire (there is no option to do this unless there is an appropriately-marked tile, right?) I could not stop him from hot-footing it out of there with the stash.

That was fixed in the latest version of the scenario book. You should check out http://www.devil-pig-games.com/en/downloads/ adn download the latest version of the rules and also the scenario book. Just remember to log in before you try to download the files, or you will get a pop-up in French telling you to log in first

orangesmartie wrote:
We did try a few assault moves (am I right in the defender getting his ATTACK bonus plus terrain defense added to the dice, rather than unit DEFENSE score plus terrain defense?)

Yes, that is how it goes. The defender gets the terrain defense bonus (if any) added to their Attack value plus their die roll.

orangesmartie wrote:
Does this sound about right for the first scenario? Having not used cards yet I'm not sure how much they would impact this scenario, but it's hard to see that it could last much longer. First impressions are favourable though.

The updated scenario is written a bit differently. Take a look and you will see you cannot run off like that and win on the first turn. But other than that sounds like you had most of the rules down and have figured out the heart of the game.

Glad to hear you enjoyed it
 
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Lewis Karl
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Not sure what is meant by the scenario being fixed. Comparing the original scenario rules with the download, for Godsend by the way, shows the only difference is this sentence:

"The movement may be 0 null."

Besides, the OP indicated the Recon unit ran off with the dropped documents after turn 1, so I presume in turn 3, which would be correct. This is entirely possible if the Recon moved next to the top left (or if German, the top right) drop point in round 2 and was unopposed at the end of the supply phase. Then, since a flipped Recon can move 4 spaces, it is entirely possible on round 3 to move to the deployment zone (OP does not say unit exited on turn 3, just that it reached the deployment zone). Again if unopposed, it could easily exit on turn 4.

However, OP indicates son had initiative and placed units first turn and also had initiative 4th turn, when documents were exited, so something is incorrect. But, such a win is possible, and happening on turn 4 is not that early, as it's past midgame.
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gary rembo
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Yes deceptive how straight forward the starter scenario is.
The cards add a lot to the game and add very little complexity so worth playing.
Remember you have to end you have to begin or end you r move next to an item before picking it up.

We found questions started arising with buildings and certain situations arising.

I myself play many war games and it does feel alien to me not to have a persistent opp fire system.
The game feels more chessy to me with th board squares and no persistent opp mode.

But they still made a great game

While no where near as realistic or elegant in game mechanics as conflict of heroes this is a very fun light war game.

It can get a bit cramped or busy and I think hex grid would have worked better but there you go they still made a great fun game
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orange smartie
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Thanks for all the helpful answers.

I just got some little ziplock bags for the many tokens (good value and well produced!) and re-read the rules and then noticed that I shouldn't have taken 3 order tokens as Xavier pointed out. Sort of explains the speed of the scenario a bit.

Lewis made a valid point about my mistake with the initiative - perhaps I mucked up somewhere with recording who had initiative; however the real issue was that I thought I couldn't stop him disappearing so conceded the victory, whereas in fact the recon team are seemingly killed with a single hit, so it might have been possible.

Looks like it will be an interesting game once I've ironed out the wrinkles.



 
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Lewis Karl
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Even if you can't kill the escaping unit with a single hit, you could fire for suppression on the move, using the vehicle, and limit the movement of the target potentially, especially if you get double the defense value and hence add two suppression markers.
 
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Stephen McPherson
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I'm actually finding that if you have the documents as your vehicle rolls-up at the end of turn 3, there doesn't appear to be a lot you can do to stop the vehicle from escaping (except for lucky 6 roll) on turns 4 & 5.

Also, it seems almost impossible to shoot infantry in cover, or win an assault (unless they can't assault back). Does that sound right ?

 
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Lewis Karl
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samc1078 wrote:
I'm actually finding that if you have the documents as your vehicle rolls-up at the end of turn 3, there doesn't appear to be a lot you can do to stop the vehicle from escaping (except for lucky 6 roll) on turns 4 & 5.


Except that the opponent also has a vehicle that should be blasting the crap out of yours as it awaits loading the infantry unit.

Quote:

Also, it seems almost impossible to shoot infantry in cover, or win an assault (unless they can't assault back). Does that sound right ?



Not my experience in this scenario. When I played it was a bloodbath. All possible drop points were covered by both sides, both vehicles were in flames, several units killed and documents never left the board. This one needs to be played aggressively IMO.
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Stephen McPherson
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Only 2 units per side can fire each turn...correct ? The ones with order tokens 1 & 2 assigned to them.
 
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Lewis Karl
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Yeah, unless a card gives a special order or opp fire.
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Ed Raz
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I played the senario 3 times and they all went quickly. I think it's designed that way in general. More of an intro. It is kind of wierd to have the vehicles when they don't really get involved too much but I think they want you to get the hang of moving them and stuff.
 
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