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Subject: Poison Pill Engineering rss

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Dave J McWeasely
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Perfect Engineering seems like a bad idea in the hands of a beginner. Just because you can throw $10k / round into building tracks, doesn't mean you get payoff proportional to the investment, but once newbies percieve they have an edge, trying to restrain their irrational exuberation is ... challenging. shake
 
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Sam Butler
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I can definitely see this potential pitfall. I also think it would be dangerous to have a newbie set upon Land Grant, who may bid more than $8k, the cost to build the track in the first place, just to get that card! It still costs an action either way...so you should never bid more than $8k solely for that card. (There may be justification to bid $8k or perhaps $9k if you could block another player by your track build, but that means there is more in your consideration than simply the land grant card).
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Tom Chappelear
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Yep, it's a card that is vastly overrated by a lot of players. I only consider getting it if I know in advance I'll have multiple 5+ hex links to make. (i.e., I have to get to New Orleans or am heading out west.)
 
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Simon Derrick
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Doesn't PE effectively give you a free action every round (provided you wanted to build track at some stage in your 3 regular actions)?

Or has my group been playing this card incorrectly?
 
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Dave J McWeasely
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PE lets you build five hexes of track in one action per turn, instead of the regular four. A good player will take it when they've got a length-5 track to build, since it takes equal time to take PE then build then to just build at full steam.
 
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Rick Holzgrafe
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MrWeasely wrote:
PE lets you build five hexes of track in one action per turn, instead of the regular four. A good player will take it when they've got a length-5 track to build, since it takes equal time to take PE then build then to just build at full steam.


Right. It's a wash if you're going to build one length-5 link, a win only if you're going to build more than one. I usually ignore it because there are not that many pairs of cities on the original board that are exactly five hexes apart—unless, as Tom said, you're after the Minneapolis-New Orleans major line and plan on mostly going up the western edge of the board. But it is useful if you're sure you will build more than one 5-link. It will save you an action on each such build, and actions are worth more than gold!

For the same reason I usually ignore Land Grant. You give up an action just to avoid an extra share or two. Most of the time I'd rather take the shares.
 
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Mark Biggar
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rholzgrafe wrote:

For the same reason I usually ignore Land Grant. You give up an action just to avoid an extra share or two. Most of the time I'd rather take the shares.


Unless, of course, you have the "Least Shares" tycoon card.
 
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Kim Milvang-Jensen
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DY_75 wrote:
Doesn't PE effectively give you a free action every round (provided you wanted to build track at some stage in your 3 regular actions)?

Or has my group been playing this card incorrectly?


I have no idea how you play to think it gives an extra action. When you build track you can still only build one LINK. PE only allows you to build links that require 5 tracks in one action, and that is the only case it helps you (well you can build 9-hex in 2 actions as well).

Ther are a number of places wher it is a very handy card indeed to have.

1. If you are building between new york and toronto, you save an action building Albany-buffalo, and it allow you to build Detroit-Toronto, and even Detroit-Chicago in one action later if you need to.

2. If you are in any way conneting to New Oleans, you can later use it to connect to Mephis from Birmingham (or Nashville), or to build Mobile-Talahasse to completer a rare, but very playable ring in the SE.

3. Some strategies involving a long route from western link to Chicage, where you want to builf Nashville-Memphis-St. Luis-KC all 5 hax link. Sometime even extenng it with KC-Desmoines.

4. Anything involving the NY-Kc major line. You probably want to build ST. Louis-KC to use it once, and you can use it to build links like Pittsburg-Toledo, Toledo-St. Louis or Cincinati-Wheeling.

It is not a wash if you only use it once, becaue just owning it, gives you more options. It also makes you a lot harder to block. Sometimes effects are hidden, where other people decide to not try extend the game with you ahead, simply because you CAN build to memphis in one action, or they dont try to block you NY-KC build simply bacause all it accomplishes is making you pay a bit more, where without PE it would also cost you an extra turn, or even make it impossible, because the would have time to block once more.

All that being said, dont take it unless you use it withing the current ot next turn.

As for it being a poison pill, sure some people might make bad choices because if it, but you can make bad choices for so many other reasons too, and it is my perception that new players are much more likely to get beaten because they play too tight, than because they spend too much money.
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Simon Derrick
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milvang wrote:
DY_75 wrote:
Doesn't PE effectively give you a free action every round (provided you wanted to build track at some stage in your 3 regular actions)?

Or has my group been playing this card incorrectly?


I have no idea how you play to think it gives an extra action.


Well, I'll give you an idea then...

The rules seem poorly written to me, in so far as they say that playing of a card does not cost you an action.

While I now read in many threads that you must play PE and GLG in conjunction with the regular "build" action, the rules as printed don't seem to support this.
 
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Dave J McWeasely
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You're overlooking the discussion of the icons on the cards. The red X, the green dot, the hand-o-cards, etcetera. Go read that section of the rulebook again, you need a refresher.
 
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Simon Derrick
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I don't own a copy of the game and no one seems to have posted the rules here or at Eagle.

If anyone has a link to the rules, could they please post it for me

Thanks

EDIT: I still maintain the rules are somewhat unclear (my group disagrees with the BGG ruling), however "play a card" is not one of the listed actions and I guess this is why you have reached the interpretation agreed on here.
 
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