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Subject: How much is it worth learning OOP Classics? rss

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Eric
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Lately I've been wondering how much efforts is it worth learning OOP classics. For example: Full Metal Planète, Space Hulk, Talisman (third edition) and Titan.

For the most part, most of us will never be able to get their hand on the game, unless we're ready to put up a lot of cash.

Since those games are OOP, even if we get new players to play them, they may never be able to get their own copy. Is it worth it to search for those holy grails or should we simply enjoy the current games? Are they worth the efforts to try to get them (if we don't already have it), or should we be satisfied with the games that are still in print?

Obviously, I'm talking about long OOP games, but what about the games that are OOP since last month, or last year?

A FLGS that I usually go to had a French copy of Dune, should I have picked it up or there is enough other games out there to make up for the experience?

We're seeing more and more games being published and we forget them as soon as another game is published. Should we be concerned or is it OK that we forget about Caylus or Puerto Rico when a publisher comes up with a new game that "fills the spot".

Should we have a revolving game collection? We play 20 different games a year, this year I want game X so I'm dropping game Y?

What do you think?

Am I making sence or am I simply frustrated because I don't have more classics in my collection?
 
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Lyman Hurd
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I can only speak for myself. I never throw or trade anything so my game collection is a srictly increasing function. Partially this is because many of my game acquisitions come in the form of presents to my kids and nobody thereafter really remembers who nominally owns which game!

I located a copy of Dune on EBay for a reasonable price, but yes I would have bought the French version if it was still available. I have a personaly tolerance for what I would spend for a game, but there are many worthwhile OOP games for quite reasonable prices.
 
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j b Goodwin

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In short, there are difficulties in acquiring and playing OOP games, but it is often worth it to do so.
 
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Brad Wagnon
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Some of the old OOP games are great, but I will usually shy away from buying a single game for more than $100 when I can get two, nearly as good games, for that price.

$250 or more puts a game in the same class as a Porsche, IMHO. If you get a huge bonus you did not expect from work, then maybe spending $200 on a "Grail Game" is ok. However, again, for $200 you could buy Caylus, PR, Burning Blue, For the People 2 and five or six other games that are readily available - and fine games in their own right.

As for keeping a game, I like to emulate a Black Hole. Once it comes in, it never escapes! (If I bought a game that turns out to be a dog, I'd probably try to figure out a trade for it. But, I've found that most games are fun to play every once in a while, just to mix up things a bit. Naval War from AH is not a "serious" game, but it is a fun filler game, or non-gamer group.)

Never get rid of a game you can play every once in a while. If nothing else, you'll end up having a retirement plan 30 to 40 years down the road with all your rare and collectible games...the new Holy Grail games of the next generation!
 
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Steve Bernhardt
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Pick up a copy of Dune if its a reasonable price.

I'm not too interested in OOP games these days, mostly because there is so much good, new stuff coming out. Paying a premium for old games + the higher and higher cost of new games is a quick way to make this hobby very expensive.

It really comes down to what you want to spend and what particular type of game you covet. Whatever makes you happy.
 
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David Me
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The only game mentioned on this list so far that I would recommend as a "must buy" for you, considering your top ten list, is Dune. I'd be even more sure of this if you know at least a bit about the Dune story.

If you understand French, that's fine, but the English edition is well worth the price it sells for nowadays.
 
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J. Green
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I totally agree about buying Dune, whatever edition you can find. It's one of the most fun, thematic and excellent gaming experiences. We had one game that lasted 8 hours and one that lasted 1 hour. It's an amazing game experience especially if you are fans of the books and/or films.

Space Hulk is also very cool, and not too expensive if you can get a set without the figures. You can substitute any kind of minis for space marines and aliens, since there's only 3 kinds of marines and 1 kind of alien. It's fun, fast playing, very tense and worth getting if you can. Expect to lose if you're the marines, at first.

 
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Karl Deckard
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I think the phrase "they don't make 'em like they used to" is appropriate here. If you like 50's modern housing, the only way to satisfy your design aesthetic is to buy a house built in the 50s. They may try to recreate that period feel, but it's never going to be the same. If you like the pure sound of music recorded to a vinyl record or the presence of the human voice when played back on a tube amplifier, you're probably never going to warm up to an mp3 played on the computer. I think the same is true, in some cases, for gaming. You may appreciate the newer products for what they are, but they are never going to be the same as the original.

There are no other current games that could possibly "replace" the copies of any of the great games you mentioned, that I have in my collection. Part of this is because I bought most of them when they came out and they mean something special to me from a certain period in my own life and gaming background. Titan, for example, was one of my favorite games from my childhood and, as I've said here before, it's part of the reason why I design games to this day. Obviously, getting the games later in life might not hold that same importance, but it just highlights the fact that no one can really answer this question adequately for you. You have to answer it yourself.
 
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Scott Kelly
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Buy them, play them. Worst case, if you don't like them or have buyers remores, just resell them and get most if not all your money back. The good thing is that these games tend to hold or increase in value over time.
 
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Eric
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wargamer66 wrote:
Pick up a copy of Dune if its a reasonable price.

I'm not too interested in OOP games these days, mostly because there is so much good, new stuff coming out. Paying a premium for old games + the higher and higher cost of new games is a quick way to make this hobby very expensive.

It really comes down to what you want to spend and what particular type of game you covet. Whatever makes you happy.

My point exactly, there are many good new games. It doesn't mean that the old games aren't interresting, but like it has been mentionned, why spend 100$ on a game, when you can get 2 or 3 games for the same price.

Not that I wouldn't want to own one of these clasics, but is it worth pursuing? I guess not at this time.

davidme wrote:
The only game mentioned on this list so far that I would recommend as a "must buy" for you, considering your top ten list, is Dune. I'd be even more sure of this if you know at least a bit about the Dune story.

If you understand French, that's fine, but the English edition is well worth the price it sells for nowadays.

I'm French-Canadian, so in this case, it's a bonus. However like I said the store had a copy, but I know who bought it. If everything else fail, I could try to convince him to help him enjoy the game!

I already bought for nostalgia reason HeroQuest Advanced Quest, Space Hulk (parts only), Thunder Road and Full Metal Conquête (since I don't want to spend the price for Full Metal Planète), no real "Grail game", but still interresting.

I guess that my point is that there is sufficient good new games, why try to buy those OOP games?

I'm wondering if you try to buy those OOP game early in your gaming days or later, after you have a bunch of games (over 100 games?) (assuming you didn't buy them when they were "in-print"!)
 
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Karl Deckard
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Aljovin wrote:

I'm wondering if you try to buy those OOP game early in your gaming days or later, after you have a bunch of games (over 100 games?) (assuming you didn't buy them when they were "in-print"!)


Actually, in my case, I did buy most of them when they were still in print. I've been gaming for quite a while. surprise

Full Metal Planete, I bought much later.
 
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Eric
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djflippy wrote:
Aljovin wrote:

I'm wondering if you try to buy those OOP game early in your gaming days or later, after you have a bunch of games (over 100 games?) (assuming you didn't buy them when they were "in-print"!)

Actually, in my case, I did buy most of them when they were still in print. I've been gaming for quite a while. surprise

Full Metal Planete, I bought much later.

I wish I'd have known! I used to own HeroQuest, and I remember ordering and playing Full Metal Planet (for a game club in college) when it was still in print! But I was into RPGs at the time.

I only got back into boardgames little more than a year ago. shake

 
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Michel T. Georges
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Eric - L'Imaginaire had French copies of Dune as of a couple of weeks ago - I picked one up - check it out.

I understand people's comments above. I must make an exception for abstracts - a lot are OOP and the only way to get them is to buy old copies or make them from scratch. It would not be true to say that modern abstracts are better than older ones.
 
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From what I heard, the french copy of Dune has all the expansions. It is worth obtaining at a decent price for that alone. You should always be able to sell it (unless a reprint happens).

Dune is a good game which nothing modern rivals. It isn't balanced but it is fun. But you need lots of time and 5 players.
 
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Lyman Hurd
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My main remorse at not having kept an OOP game was the fact that in college I shared a copy of the Eon edition of Cosmic Encounters and many of the expansions with my then roommate. To give you some idea of the timing, he and I bought up the expansions as they came on sale. Our third roommate was my girlfriend. He's now married to my old girlfriend and I have no idea what became of the games except that I don't have them! No regrets on the girlfriend front as I have been happily married for years, but I do feel wistful about the game that got away!

My minor experience of regret was not pouncing on a copy of Taj Mahal when available but all will soon be made right on that front as it is due for reprinting.
 
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Jens Hoppe
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Aljovin wrote:
My point exactly, there are many good new games. It doesn't mean that the old games aren't interresting, but like it has been mentionned, why spend 100$ on a game, when you can get 2 or 3 games for the same price.


Because some of these games can give you a unique experience that you can't replicate with newer games?

Just like today's games, OOP games differ in their quality of course. Some are real classics, most aren't. Personally, I do have a fair number of sought after games (Titan, Hannibal, 1830, to name a few). With these games, if I didn't have them, I wouldn't hesitate to try to get them back, even if I had to pay a premium.

There just aren't any other games out there at present like Titan, for instance. You have here a game that people can play 1000+ times, getting better with every game. (Personally I am only at about 100-150 games of Titan, though ). Getting 2-3 new euros just doesn't compare - it's a completely different kettle of fish...

Despite playing mostly contemporary euros, I try to get a bit of balance in my gaming: In my experience, the heavier (more old-fashioned?) multiplayer games, wargames and such present different challenges and provide different kinds of fun than the (in comparison) lighter euros. With Titan and Hannibal I know I am getting a classic game experience, without having to wade blindly through all the new games coming out, hoping that among them will be a game worth playing in a few years' time.

Most of the games we buy today are more or less disposable: They are good for a handful of games and after that we move on to newer games. A few - very few - of them will stand the test of time and appeal to us in a few decades. And that's just the point; many of the highly sought after OOPs have done just that: They have proved that even after 10-20 years and 50+ games, there's something there to come back for again and again.

It follows from this, that the appeal of some of these games is repeat play. If you buy Dune for the big bucks, but realistically expect to only get it on the table once, will it still be worth it? It might not...

So that's my take on it. I am not in general much into getting highly priced OOP games, but in a few cases I understand why the demand is there.
 
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Jacco Versteeg
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I've found I currently have a great advantage with the exchange rate between the dollar and the pound. Which makes buying things on Ebay, for instance, a lot cheaper (relatively speaking). And in that same vein, I presume some people would be horrified to see how much dollars I've spend on some things (whereas for me it was quite acceptable in pounds).

But yeah, if you really love an OOP, definitely go for it. I've gotten myself a full set of Talisman recently, and am avidly waiting for delivery! cool
 
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Ray
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Although many will find Titan too long and with too much downtime, Titan is an essential study for anyone wanting to understand how a game can be full of random die rolls and yet remain a contest of great skill. Unfortunately playing it once or twice won't convey this.

Space Hulk is a good example of one of the first "doll house for boys" family of dungeon-crawl with miniatures games and is worth playing to see the game system at a simpler earlier form (yet evolved enough not to be a bunch of independent room battles).

Both rare exceptions to the rule that if a game is good enough it will come back into print.

 
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Stephen Tavener
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I'd vote yes. There are a lot of great old games out there that probably wouldn't be published today, for one reason or another.
 
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Michael Debije
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On the other hand, $100 for Titan sounds a helluva lot better than $79.95 for a pile of plastic like Descent. Really, the costs of forgettable modern games makes these classics very attractive. They became classics for a reason: many are really great games you cannot replicate with the current collection. Even the remakes are not as good: I prefer the original Warrior Knights, Fury of Dracula, and Arkham Horror, for example. And I stress this every time this discussion comes up: if a game is too expensive, try trading for it. In trades I have acquired 1830, Titan, Blood Royale, Warrior Knights, Mythology, Fury of Dracula, Magic Realm, Swords and Sorcery, and a slew of other classics. Just have patience and look for what you rtrading partner wants, and you can get some real nice deals.
 
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Maarten D. de Jong
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wtrollkin2000 wrote:
Although many will find Titan too long and with too much downtime, Titan is an essential study for anyone wanting to understand how a game can be full of random die rolls and yet remain a contest of great skill. Unfortunately playing it once or twice won't convey this.

You can pick up Mah-Jongg for a fraction of the price and conduct exactly the same kind of study. Mind, I've never played Titan, but from this description I think both games belong in the same category.
 
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Ray
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cymric wrote:
wtrollkin2000 wrote:
Although many will find Titan too long and with too much downtime, Titan is an essential study for anyone wanting to understand how a game can be full of random die rolls and yet remain a contest of great skill. Unfortunately playing it once or twice won't convey this.

You can pick up Mah-Jongg for a fraction of the price and conduct exactly the same kind of study. Mind, I've never played Titan, but from this description I think both games belong in the same category.

You can't study dice skill in Mah-jongg. I think Mah-Jongg is more for studying random numbers with replacement (tile or card draw) and you are right there are many tests of skill for such games. Amongst games of skill with random numbers without replacement (e.g. dice) Backgammon would be a better comparison to Titan but is IMHO a bit more vulnerable to player luck.
 
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Maarten D. de Jong
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Ah, I see. If dice are a requirement, yes, then Mah-Jongg doesn't help much. But it will teach you skill with pure randomness very well---I guess we're both right in our own way .
 
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