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Subject: Gaining a condition you already have by choice? (Dark Pact) rss

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mfl134
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A player has a Dark Pact.


They are present with the follow options:

You may gain a Dark Pact to do Option A, otherwise do Option B.

Can this person perform option B?

We ruled that you couldn't gain another Dark Pact, so Option B was the only option.



Where is this in the rules? I feel like I read it somewhere, but I can't find it.

Also, on the note of Dark Pacts, I see no reason why you couldn't have more than 1 Dark Pact and role for each independently.
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Alex
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That's right, you can't gain a Dark Pact, since you already have one, so Option B is your only option. I can't tell you where it's in the rules, though, but I know, that this specific question has been asked before, so I'm pretty sure on this one.

And you simply can't gain a Condition you already have (it's in the rules). Note: you can also only have only one Debt-Condition, otherwise you could just empty the Asset-Reserve every round.
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Jaidyn Casey
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mfl134 wrote:
A player has a Dark Pact.


They are present with the follow options:

You may gain a Dark Pact to do Option A, otherwise do Option B.

Can this person perform option B?

We ruled that you couldn't gain another Dark Pact, so Option B was the only option.



Where is this in the rules? I feel like I read it somewhere, but I can't find it.

Also, on the note of Dark Pacts, I see no reason why you couldn't have more than 1 Dark Pact and role for each independently.


Being that a Dark Pact is a "condition", I looked up the rules for gaining conditions on page 6 of the Reference Guide:

"If an investigator gains a Spell or Condition that he already has,
he discards it and draws a replacement, repeating this process
until he draws a card he does not already have (if able)."

Since the card is specifically telling you to get a Dark Pact condition, you can't get another Dark Pact condition... which is where the "if able" comes into play. So you gain nothing new.

So your understanding is correct that A is not available so do B. That is how I would play it. :-)
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Michael Dillenbeck
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Jaidyn nailed the rule down - one of each. Since you already had it, you can't gain it and therefore you don't get the benefit for the gain.

I just want to emphasize something else - sometimes you have the power to "not become delayed unless you choose to" - and this comes into play when certain cards say "if you choose to become delayed" or might say something like "Unless the Lead Investigator becomes delayed, ________" - in both these cases the investigator is choosing to become delayed so their power doesn't protect them.

Of course, there is also the Arkham/Eldritch Horror etiquette to follow: if you are uncertain, always assume the ruling will not be in the investigators' favor.
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Kārlis Jēriņš
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mfl134 wrote:
Also, on the note of Dark Pacts, I see no reason why you couldn't have more than 1 Dark Pact and role for each independently.


I'm not sure I see the thematic reason for limiting any condition except Debt to one. Houserule time, maybe?
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Trevor Taylor
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Thematically, for the Dark pact, you can't gain another as a specific 'dark one' has claimed you as their own, so wards off any other. The reverse is true for blessed (you get a super bonus if you 'gain' a second blessed status). Other conditions could possibly stack (you could break BOTH legs). However, I think this is where mechanic rules over theme, as a lot of couldn't stack and it would be something you'd have to check every time you received a condition.

I much prefer having a character that looks like they fell down stairs made of teeth and misery! This would look less interesting if it turns out they have 4 broken legs.
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Alex
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Also, mind, that the amount of available Conditions is limited. If you allow one player to gain all "broken Legs" (Thanks @negatrev, made me laugh :-D) and Amnesia-Conditions, there might not be any Conditions left for other players.
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Kārlis Jēriņš
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diceman2k4 wrote:
Also, mind, that the amount of available Conditions is limited. If you allow one player to gain all "broken Legs" (Thanks @negatrev, made me laugh :-D) and Amnesia-Conditions, there might not be any Conditions left for other players.


The game can be played with up to 8 investigators, yet in the base game not even Debt comes in enough copies for each.
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Alex
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Yeah, and now imagine, that even more of the same Conditions have been gobbled up by just one player.
Exactly my point.
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Kārlis Jēriņš
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How about this houserule, then?

When you would gain a condition (other than Debt) that you already have, flip your copy of that condition card instead. Resolve its effect and then flip it back over (even if that effect says to discard the card).
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Alex
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We just had a lengthy discussion about this:
Look here.

Consensus:
It's not a bad house-rule per se, but it may trigger further ambiguities and might even compromise certain abilities and events.
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Bert McCloud
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TheNameWasTaken wrote:
mfl134 wrote:
Also, on the note of Dark Pacts, I see no reason why you couldn't have more than 1 Dark Pact and role for each independently.


I'm not sure I see the thematic reason for limiting any condition except Debt to one. Houserule time, maybe?


Why is debt out of the question? I mean, I can be in debt to multiple people/organisations right? Especially in the era this is set in; did they perform international credit checks back in 1926?
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Alex
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This one's more mechanical than thematic:
Allowing you to take more than one Debt-Condition would also allow you to abuse the hell out of the Gain Assets-Action.
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Bert McCloud
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diceman2k4 wrote:
This one's more mechanical than thematic:
Allowing you to take more than one Debt-Condition would also allow you to abuse the hell out of the Gain Assets-Action.


Oh of course, no question about that; if I could take multiple debts I would buy ALL the things as early as possible and then when debt collectors came along I would not care because I'd have all the things!

But TheNameWasTaken said

TheNameWasTaken wrote:

I'm not sure I see the thematic reason for limiting any condition except Debt to one. Houserule time, maybe?


IE there is a thematic reason for limiting Debt. I don't doubt there's a mechnical reason, 100% agree with that. But there's not much of a thematic reason to limit debt.
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Kārlis Jēriņš
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BertMcCloud wrote:
TheNameWasTaken wrote:
mfl134 wrote:
Also, on the note of Dark Pacts, I see no reason why you couldn't have more than 1 Dark Pact and role for each independently.


I'm not sure I see the thematic reason for limiting any condition except Debt to one. Houserule time, maybe?


Why is debt out of the question? I mean, I can be in debt to multiple people/organisations right? Especially in the era this is set in; did they perform international credit checks back in 1926?


Because borrowing money when you're already in debt is a lame, uncool thing to do and principles are worth more than human survival

In truth, I didn't think about that sentence very much. Also, I know very little about banking in the 1920s, but surely they must have had some kind of way to determine who could be trusted to pay loans back, no?
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Bert McCloud
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TheNameWasTaken wrote:
In truth, I didn't think about that sentence very much. Also, I know very little about banking in the 1920s, but surely they must have had some kind of way to determine who could be trusted to pay loans back, no?


If this was just Arkham I would say yes; but since I'm a globetrotting occult investigator I would be very surprised if anyone in Tokyo was aware that I had failed to pay back by debts in Rome!
 
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H-B-G
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TheNameWasTaken wrote:

In truth, I didn't think about that sentence very much. Also, I know very little about banking in the 1920s, but surely they must have had some kind of way to determine who could be trusted to pay loans back, no?


I'm not sure that most of the these loans come from banks, but are from less legal sources and from the effects on the backs of the cards they are of the type where they endeavour to ensure they are paid back by the prospect of something bad happening to you if you don't.

And these debt collectors will go anywhere. I remember a game where a couple of goons caught up with me on R'lyeh of all places.
 
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If I have a madness condition, say amnesia, can I get another variation of the madness condition, such as hallucinations?

In other words, is the condition madness or amnesia?
 
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Daniel Honig
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Only the name of the condition matters, not the subtype.

If you are told to gain a Madness and already have Amnesia, you will draw from the deck until you get a non-Amnesia madness condition.

If you have every madness condition already, then you will be unable to take a Madness.
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Alex
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Some events in this game might give you a "Madness"-Condition, though (at least I think so). In that case, go through the Condition-Deck and pick the first Condition with the Madness-Subtype, that you don't possess already. For example, if you already have Amnesia, pick the next one, like Hallucination. Works the same with the Injury-Subtype, you get the gist.
 
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