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Subject: Looking for buying advice to get started rss

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Tamidor Winddancer
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Hello fellow Trekkies,

I am on the edge of buying into the STAW system soley for the purpose of playing with my wife and my two sons.

So the question ist what to buy to get the best gaming experience.

As Star Trek fans of everything coming after the orignial series, the federation ships we are mostly interested in are:

Enterprise D, Voyager and Defiant

There ist no consideration concerning gameplay in this selection. Just the I want to fly this ship because it is so cool concern.

What would be a balanced match for these ships or should I add another federation ship for balance or because of a good mission or card?

Favoured factions would be Klingons, Borg and Dominion I think.
The Borg are really interesting but I am not sure how they play.

Please pardon my rough english, I am from Germany.

Best regards and thank you in advance,
Tamidor
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Noah Sager
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I think you could really enjoy the game!

I recommend sticking to ships from the starter set and first 3 waves and seeing how that works out for you. There's a ton of fun to be had in all those ships.

Voyager and the Borg start in wave 4 and you start to get some power creep that makes random matches less even. But you could still have fun with this, trying to come up with counter-builds and such.

So just get the starter set for now, play around, and see what you want next!
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Tom Coon
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If you're just looking for "I want to fly this because its cool" then, honestly, I'd get together with your kids take a look online at the various expansions and go by "hey, that looks cool!" and get it.

In general, it's hard to go wrong with that rationale. Particularly for Klingon, Dominion and Federation you should be able to come up with pretty balanced fleets by the cool criterion alone.

My feeling you'll do fine with the Starter.
For the Klingons I'd recommend Chang's Bird of Prey, IKS Koraga, and IKS Negh'var and with IKS Kronos One, Gr'oth, and Somraw being second-tier. Honestly, for the cool factor alone I picked up two Koragas because if you like Klingons you love Birds of Prey.

In my opinion its hard to go wrong with Federation ships- get the ones you want. Thus far Federation ships are the only ones I haven't doubled up on and haven't really felt the need to.

Dominion. Again the 'it looks cool' criterion is a fine way to select these and all of the Dominion ships are worthwhile. I'd place priority with the Battle Cruiser, Kraxon, Koranak followed by the others.

Really with this approach you should come out with quite comparable fleets.


The Borg are, of course, the Borg so everything's good from their expansions. Again, the cool instinct is fine for these too.


And your English was fine, no worries! Take it from a TEFL teacher
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Tom Gabel
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I think a starter set and either the Kraxon or Koranak is a good way to start. That gets you one reasonably tough ship for each of the 4 "main" factions, so you, your wife, and sons could feasibly even play 4-way battles.

After that, I think buying whichever ships look like fun is a fine way to go for all factions but the Borg. If you guys are just playing casual games at home, then I don't think you'll run into too many balance issues.

The trouble some people run into with Borg are that they can move in any direction, fire in any direction, and have very strong attacks, meaning it's usually easy for them to get shots while also remaining outside their opponents' line of fire.

If you like the Borg, though, then it would be a shame to not use them, so I'd recommend trying them out, and if you think they're too strong then check some of the house rules people have come up with for them.
 
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Tamidor Winddancer
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Many thanks for the quick answers.

But I think I should elaborate something. I don´t want to select ships only because we find them cool. That is just the way we selected the three federation ships (Enterprise D, Voyager and Defiant).

The reason is that at the moment, we cannot make any gameplay based decisions because we don´t know the game yet.

We do not have the budget to become collectors and just buy everything, even if I wanted to

So to be able to make more gameplay based decisions I am asking for your help.

It would be really nice to have a setup for 4 players, desirably for a 2 vs 2 game. This means we do not have to have 4 factions but maybe it is more interesting to mix.

Are there any missions for 4 players? A quick google search couldn´t give me an answer for this.

The more I look at the Borg miniatures, the more I like them but I am worried, that without cloaking they miss a really interesting aspect of the game. And who would team up with the Borg?? devil


Many thanks. Any comments are welcome.

If anyone gets the impression that I have the slightest tendency to overthink things, that may be true.shake

@Tom: Thank you for your reply. I was writing this, before I could read your answer. It was very helpful.

Best regards,
Tamidor
 
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Tom Gabel
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Ah, well in that case, here are my recommendations for the other three factions you're interested in:

Klingons:
The Negh'Var gets you a nice, beefy ship to stand up against Voyager, and two pretty darn good Klingon captains. Beyond that, I personally would go for the Koraga, since it has Worf as a captain, and a bunch of upgrades that mesh well together.

Dominion:
Really depends on if you want a mix of everyone, or to stick to one of the sub-factions (just thematic, there's no gameplay distinctions for sub factions). From a gameplay perspective, I think the Koranak is a must. After that, the Breen are fun, but a bit tricky to use, the other Kraxon is a decent attack ship, and the Jem'Hadar ships are either lumbering powerhouses or swift but fragile attack ships.

Borg I'm going to leave to everyone else, because I just don't have enough experience with them.

As for multi-player games, the turn order isn't "player A, player B, etc." Instead, each ship's captain has a skill number, and all movement, regardless of who controls which ships, happens in ascending skill order. Then, all attacks happen in descending skill order. So as you can see, it would be pretty easy to play a four-player game, either with team-ups or as a free-for-all, as long as each player keeps track of his own ships. There is one scenarios with the Romulan Valdore ship which is a 1-3 player cooperative scenario, but really almost any scenario could be for more than two players, as long as you have at least one ship per player.

As for who would team up with the Borg? The Federation! Or anyone, under the right circumstances. The Borg seem like they're willing/able to compromise in times of need, if they're sufficiently outmatched. Come up,with an "enemy if my enemy" scenario where they team up with someone. Or, have all three other players team up against one much stronger Borg fleet.
 
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David Griffin
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The ship pricing system does not take maneuver wheels or firing arcs into account. Therefore ships which have a 360 (or wide) arc and a good maneuver wheel tend to perform above their SP cost and that is the definition of the Borg. If you play Borg and your opponent does not, you may be doing a lot of winning, but you might soon be playing by yourself so I'd recommend you both play borg or neither or you spot the non borg player some points.

If that does happen, the non Borg player might try the new Hideki fighters which are also a pretty sweet ship for its price. Just my opinion.
 
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Nico
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There are some fellow german gamers to be found at www.neutralezone.forumieren.com.

Drop by, if you'd like!

Also, there are a lot of reviews and articles about the game at the blog: www.weiterspielen.net.
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Nico
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One problem you'll be faced with, is that not all ships are readily available right now on the german market. Ships like the USS Defiant and he Valdore, Negh'Var and Koraga are hard to find and quite expansive I'm afraid. :/
 
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Tamidor Winddancer
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Hi Nico,

I will wait til asmodee will release the german version. My kids are not able to read in english at this time so I need the german cards.

I hope the translation is good as my wife and I watched the series in english. It might seem a little strange for us.

Also I hope when the german version is being released it will get a little cheaper.

Best regards,
Tamidor
 
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Nico
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I suggest getting an english starter set in the meantime.

Asmodee has pushed the release date for a german version once more and now claims the german version will hit the shelves in Sommer/Spätsommer 2015.

Test the Game using the Starter Set and then wait for the general release of the german stuff.

As far as we're told, the OP stuff will not be translated at all, so you'll most likely get a hodgepodge of languages anyway.

Teach you children English by gaming, I know I started to learn english, when I started reading the novels and watching the series in original language, and not at school

Enjoy the game and feel free to nose around at our german forums and the weiterspielen-blog.

Lieben Gruß,

Nico
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Tom Coon
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Cut_ wrote:

Teach you children English by gaming, I know I started to learn english, when I started reading the novels and watching the series in original language, and not at school


Nico


Seconded a hundredfold!
 
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Tamidor Winddancer
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Thanks for the input.
But to be honest there is quite A LOT OF text on the cards I have seen so far. So I am really not sure if they can manage.
Especially as they have no english experience at all. And english in school is far away.
I played a little with the german base game of X-Wing with my soon to be eight years old son and it worked quite fine. But to teach him to read a language he doesn´t know at all seems quite challenging.
I wouldn´t mind sticking with X-Wing for a while but especially my wife loves the star trek universe so much more that I was willing to switch before I start to invest further into X-Wing.
Also I really like the idea of the missions.
Another point for me is that the Star Trek models although having a worse paint job seem to be much more sturdy.
This is a big plus, when playing with kids.
I already took an X-Wing to the grave. cry

I tried to find out something about the Asmodee release on their homepage, but I couldn´t find anything.

Does anyone know, if they are planning on releasing Star Trek Fleet captains as well. This might be an interesting alternative for us.

Best regards,
Tamidor
 
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Tom Coon
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I love fleet captains, though of the two fleet captains I feel is much more language intensive than Attack Wing both in gameplay and learning the basics. I couldn't speak to upcoming translations for it, that would be Nico's area of expertise.

If you stick to the early waves expansions for Attack Wing I think you'd be able to play the game with minimal linguistic hiccups even without your kids having much English experience. I agree if you're dealing with the later expansions you're getting a lot more text, but in the first couple waves, its quite minimal.

Furthermore, you could roughly pre-select the fleet builds for your kids by having them pick the ships they want to play and make very basic builds with a ship having a captain and say a photon torpedo each. Or even more simply something like this:

Generic K'vort-Generic Klingon Captain
Generic K'vort- Generic Fed Captain

Generic Intrepid- Generic Fed Captain
Generic Defiant- Generic Fed Captain

Those are relatively even-matched teams and would introduce the basic symbols. From there you could add photon torpedoes which would introduce a bit of language and you could build slowly from there. Even without translating every word, I imagine your kids will fairly quickly map symbols to vocabularly and broad meaning of the simpler-phrased cards. Anyway, just an idea...sorry, my mind is already racing to think about how to teach this game in a zero English context , I definitely think its possible. But naturally you'll make that determination together.

A minor note on an idiom though, "I already took one X-Wing to the grave" means that you have already died and have taken the X-Wing with you. "I already sent one X-Wing to the grave" is what you intend- meaning you've already seen one X-Wing destroyed.

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Tamidor Winddancer
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Thank you so much for all your advice.

I am really grateful when someone corrects my english so I can improve myself. Is should write in the community more often.

Concerning the trampeled X-Wing, I really felt, that I died a little, because it happened during unboxing. The little ship never had the chance for his maiden flight and to be blown up by a Tie-Fighter like it should have. devil

@Nico: If you have more information regarding a possible Fleet Captains release from Asmodee, would you please share it with me?

Best regards
Tamidor
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Nico
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Of course

Fleet Captains is, IMHO, the Holy Grail of Trek Gaming. Therefore it is a real pitty, that there are no plans of Asmodee to produce a german version of the game.

When the distribution and licensing deal with WizKids was announced, I asked Asmodee just that, and the reply was, that there would probably be a german version of the Mage Knight Boardgame (again) and one for Star Trek Attack Wing, but that there were no plans to translate Fleet Captains.

That game is extremely language dependent, but there's a fellow german trekkies translation effort to be found in the files section right here on BGG.

More to come, got to eat now
 
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Michael Nelson
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If the translation is far off, and you're up for the effort, you could try translating it yourself, either typing it up on reference sheets, or even creating and printing your own translated versions of the cards. might not be your thing, but it's an option
 
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Nico
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Your kids are quite young to get them started on a strongly text-based game like XWing/STAW/Fleet Captains, let alone in another language.

One possibility I see, is that the rule set of STAW is quite similar to that of XWing (no surprise, being based both on the Flight Path rule system), which you already have available (and at hand) in german, but there are some differences, like being able to attack a ship that touches your base and vica versa and most of all the split between Captains/Pilots and their craft.

I have written a (german language) comparison between the two systems that has been posted by a friend on www.weiterspielen.net:

http://weiterspielen.net/attack-wing-unter-der-lupe/

Edit: I just couldn't restrain myself: This is my (again, german) Fleet Captains review on weiterspielen: http://weiterspielen.net/star-trek-fleet-captains/


 
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MICHAEL MA
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Tamidor wrote:
Hello fellow Trekkies,

I am on the edge of buying into the STAW system soley for the purpose of playing with my wife and my two sons.

So the question ist what to buy to get the best gaming experience.

As Star Trek fans of everything coming after the orignial series, the federation ships we are mostly interested in are:

Enterprise D, Voyager and Defiant

There ist no consideration concerning gameplay in this selection. Just the I want to fly this ship because it is so cool concern.

What would be a balanced match for these ships or should I add another federation ship for balance or because of a good mission or card?

Favoured factions would be Klingons, Borg and Dominion I think.
The Borg are really interesting but I am not sure how they play.

Please pardon my rough english, I am from Germany.

Best regards and thank you in advance,
Tamidor

A balanced match? There are other variables to consider. What upgrades, captains, crew, weapons, etc...do you plan to use?

As a guess:
Borg
1 Sphere
2 608 Scout Cubes

Dominion
1 Jem'Hadar Battleship
1 Jem'Hadar Battlecruiser

Klingons
1 Negh'Var or Vor'cha
2 K'Vorts.

One option to consider. Look at the mission cards that come with the game and each ship. Many of the pre-written scenarios work very well.

In any case you need the basic box. Just like X-Wing, the basic set contains the templates, dice and rules.
 
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David Griffin
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Out of the starter box, the Federation has a problem with the Klingon ship because the Klingon ship has lots of defense dice and 4 attack dice is not really enough to consistently penetrate. The problem gets worse with the Negh'Var. Fed vs. Klingons is a delicate balance of attack dice to defense dice. Graduate to the Enterprise E at 5 dice and the Klingons start to feel vulnerable (which is just as it should be!). Romulans tend to have too low attack dice if they are up against a lot of defense dice.

Voyager has some good crew, but Janeway AND voyager create aux tokens and it's hard to run Janeway on Voyager. Use the original enterprise (constitution) with it's great cards with Janeway in command. Use someone else like Picard for Voyager.

I guess if I had to pick a restricted bunch of Feds to buy it would be: Original Enterprise (terrible miniature though), Voyager, Enterprise E, Excelsior, and maybe Reliant. Possibly the Constitution Refit. The NX has the enhanced hull plating that works well on the original Enterprise.

I'm not as knowledgeable about the other factions but you can get a pretty strong build going with the two Cardassian ships and the Hideki fighters. The Dominion ship are tempting for their attacks but the battleship is really unmaneuverable. The Battlecruiser is much better but the actual Dominion ships all want to be with other dominion ships to make their perks work. The Klingons use a standard 3 ship build in 100 points and have a lot of options. Vorcha (starter), Neg'Var, K'Vort, and K'Tingas all give you some useful cards and ships. One of the favorite ships in the game, the B'Rel class is a OP prize and can be expensive. They work pretty well plain, where the Federation usually needs upgrades to be effective.

 
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