Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
19 Posts

BoardGameGeek» Forums » BoardGameGeek Related » BGG General

Subject: Why PayPal? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Sparr Risher
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The marketplace splits the whole of online payments into "PayPal" and "other ...". I see people talking about putting cash into math trades, and most of them refer specifically to using PayPal. Ignoring any potential negative arguments against using PayPal specifically, what's up with there being such a devotion to any single site/service around here?
1 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
BoardGameCo
United States
Charlotte
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Paypal is convenient for the average user. Especially since most payments are person to person and individuals are more likely to take papyal then credit cards.

I genuinely 100% don't mean this offensively...but why out of the blue are you so interested in fixing everything? The math trades was one thing but combined with this and you might be giving off a negative impression that you're looking for problems.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sparr Risher
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
alexsr wrote:
out of the blue ... looking for problems.
This coincides with starting to use the site a lot more than I have in the last few years. And I'm looking for solutions; the problems make themselves apparent without needing to look.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United Kingdom
Hinckley
Leics
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Paypal offers a fee-free money transfer service (amongst other things) with fee-free extending to money transfer in various currencies (albeit with a to-be-expected exchange rate mark-up which is actually not outrageous).

One is also able to maintain a balance in various currencies: I have a balance in £, € and $ and spend from those balances rather than exchanging currency each time.

There are no viable alternatives even with the relatively advanced and highly integrated banking infrastructure that we enjoy in Europe. Whilst bank transfers within a single country such as the Uk or within a larger area such as the €-zone are by-and-large free (and in the UK at least all but instantaneous), high bank charges preclude small foreign-currency payments via the banking system.

The anonymity afforded by Paypal also protects one against misuse of one's bank details which would become visible using bank transfers. That is not a big issue since banking legislation would protect the consumer from unauthorised transactions, but it's a potential nuisance that is easily avoided by using Paypal.

Of course, using Paypal for commercial transaction is also popular because Paypal is heavily biased in favour of protecting the buyer, and it is quicker and easier to get a refund from Paypal than from one's credit or debit card.

If you are looking to start an alternative money-transfer operation to solve whatever problems you think exist with Paypal it will be welcome. Competition will help to drive down Paypal's fees. Many years ago I viewed Paypal with suspicion (perhaps justifiable) and refused to contemplate using them; nowadays I have embraced the valuable ('free') services they provide
12 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sparr Risher
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
enoon wrote:
If you are looking to start an alternative money-transfer operation to solve whatever problems you think exist with Paypal it will be welcome. Competition will help to drive down Paypal's fees.
I'm not. I'm wondering why so few people here use their existing competitors. Hell, I'm wondering why so few people here have *heard* of their competitors.

I do a lot of business at conventions and flea markets, as well as on Craigslist and other similar sites. I'm used to having people ask me to use arbitrary payment services with some frequency. I have active accounts with the following services:

http://wallet.google.com/
http://serve.com/ (American Express)
http://dwolla.com/
http://popmoney.com/
http://venmo.com/
http://square.com/cash
http://chase.com/online-banking/quickpay
https://www.skrill.com/skrillit/

(this list is very USA-centric, although many of these services work worldwide, and other countries/zones have their own offerings as well)

None of these are small operations. They all have millions of users. It's perplexing to me to see such a monoculture here for a niche that there are already numerous viable alternatives for.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United Kingdom
Hinckley
Leics
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Run up a comparison table for us and we can see how viable these alternatives are ... I suspect few if any are viable in europe, not the least because they are American corporations not subject to our financial regulations and consumer protection laws.

Right now, with fee-free virtually instant transfers by Paypal there's no incentive to dig though that list to find their fees, restrictions, cop-outs and small-print by which they seek to avoid any responsibility etc etc. Paypal are at least subject to some regulatory control here in Europe. Many money-transfer organisations (especially FX agents) are not, and most Europeans would not easily relinquish jurisdiction under our consumer laws to a corporation which declared itself subject only to the laws of another jurisdiction.

I don't think this is a problem which needs fixing. If it does, then the community will decide over time that other offerings are viable and will adopt them.

Don't get me wrong: we europeans would LOVE a European alternative to Paypal ... (and Google, and Microsoft, and ..... )


Next expired equine?
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sparr Risher
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
enoon wrote:
Run up a comparison table for us and we can see how viable these alternatives are
Once again (is this five times in two days I've called you out on this?) you've decided that we are talking about something that we are not. I'm not here to convince you to use another service. I'm here asking questions.

enoon wrote:
Paypal are at least subject to some regulatory control here in Europe.
That's a really strange distinction. In the US, it's the opposite. Paypal is the most unregulated money service here, much to its users detriment compared to any alternative.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United Kingdom
Hinckley
Leics
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sparr0 wrote:
enoon wrote:
Run up a comparison table for us and we can see how viable these alternatives are
Once again (is this five times in two days I've called you out on this?) you've decided that we are talking about something that we are not. I'm not here to convince you to use another service. I'm here asking questions.

And one of the answers to your question is that there are no viable alternatives. You assert there are. If you don't want to justify your assertion, that's fine by me.

sparr0 wrote:
enoon wrote:
Paypal are at least subject to some regulatory control here in Europe.
That's a really strange distinction. In the US, it's the opposite. Paypal is the most unregulated money service here, much to its users detriment compared to any alternative.
A 'strange distinction'? Not at all strange: our consumer protection laws are heavily biased in favour of the consumer. That's why it's not a problem here to use Paypal.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeff Michaud
United States
Longwood
Florida
flag msg tools
On-Line Want List Generator - Hopefully Making Math Trades a Little Bit Easier
badge
Captain Kirk, Captain Picard, Captain Sisko, Captain Janeway, Captain Archer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sparr0 wrote:
The marketplace splits the whole of online payments into "PayPal" and "other ...".

other than you duplicating yet another old discussion (and apparently starting to piss people off, see other recent thread by someone other than you)... this technically belongs in "discussing retailers" not in "trades"

imho, ymmv
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sparr Risher
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
JeffyJeff wrote:
sparr0 wrote:
The marketplace splits the whole of online payments into "PayPal" and "other ...".
this technically belongs in "discussing retailers" not in "trades"
I thought that forum was for discussing sites and stores that sell [many] games. Is it for marketplace / person-to-person sales, too? Is there a way to move this thread?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Canada
London
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
"Federer is Betterer"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There are really no current viable alternatives to Paypal's ubiquitous payments system. Yes, there are some local online system's in the US largely tied to their banking system, but nothing on the scale and handling multiple currencies as Paypal. I for one ... and I am sure many other's also don't want the hassle and additional security risk involved in providing my payments deals through multiple vendors. One system that everyone can use is more efficient too. Sorry but I also disagree with poster here.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Clem Fandango
New Zealand
WELLINGTON
flag msg tools
Stephen, it's Clem Fandango. Can you hear me?
badge
YES I can hear you Clem Fandango!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
sparr0 wrote:
enoon wrote:
If you are looking to start an alternative money-transfer operation to solve whatever problems you think exist with Paypal it will be welcome. Competition will help to drive down Paypal's fees.
I'm not. I'm wondering why so few people here use their existing competitors. Hell, I'm wondering why so few people here have *heard* of their competitors.

I do a lot of business at conventions and flea markets, as well as on Craigslist and other similar sites. I'm used to having people ask me to use arbitrary payment services with some frequency. I have active accounts with the following services:

http://wallet.google.com/
http://serve.com/ (American Express)
http://dwolla.com/
http://popmoney.com/
http://venmo.com/
http://square.com/cash
http://chase.com/online-banking/quickpay
https://www.skrill.com/skrillit/

(this list is very USA-centric, although many of these services work worldwide, and other countries/zones have their own offerings as well)

None of these are small operations. They all have millions of users. It's perplexing to me to see such a monoculture here for a niche that there are already numerous viable alternatives for.


I've not checked but I am reasonably sure many don't work in New Zealand. I also know when I've done transactions for here to Asia (as I have) I don't want to be trying something I don't know is safe.

If it's not broken don't fix it. As you acknowledge this is an Ameri-centric list and lots of US only alternatives makes life harder for those of us at the end of the world.

And I have to ask: I'm assuming you don't have any tie-in or connection to any of Paypal's competitors? I suspect your interest is straight up, but we've had some very cunning commercial intrusions.

and any NZ offering will be awful and expensive, and if tied into Australia more awful and twice as expensive
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J Knoerzer
United States
Chicago
Illinois
flag msg tools
This blue box is not as cool as David Tennant's...
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
To give an opinion on one of the services that you listed. http://chase.com/online-banking/quickpay
I have used this and it is more complicated and takes more time to set up and complete transaction. Paypal wins over chase quickpay, in my opinion. The only thing that chase quickpay is better at getting money into your bank account after and that is only if you have a chase account.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
You can't handle the truth?
Canada
Edmonton
Alberta
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Paypal was the first online payment option that I used, and it went well.

I have continued to use them for many things over the years, and they have never screwed me over.

So, until they do, why fix what ain't broke.

I am sure there are a lot of people in my position.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United Kingdom
Hinckley
Leics
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
crambaza wrote:
So, until they do, why fix what ain't broke.
The OP has been finding lots of things that he thinks are broken ... I don't think he was terribly interested in actually getting the answer to his question.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sparr Risher
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
SamNzed wrote:
And I have to ask: I'm assuming you don't have any tie-in or connection to any of Paypal's competitors? I suspect your interest is straight up, but we've had some very cunning commercial intrusions.
I have no financial interest in any of Paypal's competitors. I just can't use Paypal, for reasons similar to the thousands of other paypal horror stories I wish I could assume you've all seen...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
sparr0 wrote:
I do a lot of business at conventions and flea markets, as well as on Craigslist and other similar sites. I'm used to having people ask me to use arbitrary payment services with some frequency. I have active accounts with the following services:

http://wallet.google.com/
http://serve.com/ (American Express)
http://dwolla.com/
http://popmoney.com/
http://venmo.com/
http://square.com/cash
http://chase.com/online-banking/quickpay
https://www.skrill.com/skrillit/

I only recall hearing about one of those. Almost every website which I visit which includes a way to send money to the site has a paypal button. I don't recall seeing buttons for any of these other services.

I think the answer to your original question is pretty obvious: paypal is the most common well-known widely used such service. (Analogous to how many websites have a facebook button, but not buttons for the zillions of other social networks.) 800 pound gorilla and all that.

Are you saying that you think that most websites support all those other services too, and that BGG is unusual?

Or are you asking why most websites (including BGG) don't support all those other services too?
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sparr Risher
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
russ wrote:
I only recall hearing about one of those ... Or are you asking why most websites (including BGG) don't support all those other services too?
Less asking about the website, more about the people, and your earlier sentence might answer it. Do you mind if I ask which of those you've heard about? I'm not sure how prevalent Google or American Express are in Europe.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Russ Williams
Poland
Wrocław
Dolny Śląsk
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
sparr0 wrote:
russ wrote:
I only recall hearing about one of those ... Or are you asking why most websites (including BGG) don't support all those other services too?
Less asking about the website, more about the people, and your earlier sentence might answer it. Do you mind if I ask which of those you've heard about? I'm not sure how prevalent Google or American Express are in Europe.

I've heard of Google wallet. (But never used it, and don't recall ever seeing it as a clickable payment option at a website.)

(I've heard of American Express, the credit card company, but not about serve.com which you mentioned as connected to AmEx. The credit card seems not very common in Europe AFAIK, unlike e.g. Visa.) (FWIW I also know of the bank Chase but not about their paypal-ish online payment service.)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.