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I tried posting this as a session report, but some kind and wise soul out there decided that this session report "wasn't worth the GG" and denied the post. So general post it is!

One of the things that makes Wager Master unique is that he has a number of ongoing condition cards in his deck, which add additional lose (and win) conditions to the game. In the case of the game I played, I met a win condition before the first hero had a chance to even play his turn!

Villain: Wager Master

Heroes: Legacy, Tempest, Fantatic, Ra

Environment: Megalopolis

Wager Master starts the game with 4 conditions in play. One of the conditions randomly chosen was Losing To The Odds, which states "At the end of the villain turn, if each hero target has an even amount of current HP but less than their maximum hp, the heroes win the game"

On his turn, Wager Master plays Impossible Quandary, which forces each hero to deal itself 4 psychic damage. At the end of the turn, the heroes all have an even amount of health, and win the game due to Losing To The Odds.
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That is hilarious! I can't wait for my pre-order to arrive at my local game store.

This makes me worry a bit, though, that Wager-Master may have a lot of bookkeeping, which is always a problem for me because my attention to detail is lousy. For example, I found Kismet to be very difficult to play the one time I have tried her so far, simply because all of those interacting Ongoing cards are really hard to keep track of.
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Charles S
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I had almost the same thing happen.
But for me it was the Wagelings (I believe this is the name, 6 hp target), who do 1 point of damage to all heroes at End of Villain Turn. All the heroes started with odd hitpoints, took a point of damage, and were all even when Losing To The Odds took place.
(Note I'm not at home so don't have the deck in front of me, but Wagelings doesn't feel like a Condition as I sit here, so its possible I made a mistake in set up.)

I just drew to another Condition, and shuffled Losing To The Odds back into the deck so that we could play a real game.
 
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Are you sure even amount of health does not mean that heroes have the same health totals...and not just all having a health value evenly divisible by two? It's not clear to me
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ChaplainCassius wrote:
Are you sure even amount of health does not mean that heroes have the same health totals...and not just all having a health value evenly divisible by two? It's not clear to me


Hmm, I didn't think of that! That would make the win condition a bit harder to obtain. I haven't seen an official ruling on it on the SotM forums.
 
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Jason Green
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ChaplainCassius wrote:
Are you sure even amount of health does not mean that heroes have the same health totals...and not just all having a health value evenly divisible by two? It's not clear to me


I think that would be worded as "equal amount of health", not "even" if that was the case.
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SmackleFunky wrote:
ChaplainCassius wrote:
Are you sure even amount of health does not mean that heroes have the same health totals...and not just all having a health value evenly divisible by two? It's not clear to me


I think that would be worded as "equal amount of health", not "even" if that was the case.

Yeah, with that wording I'd assume it's a number divisible by two.

I haven't played against Wager Master yet but I assume he has the usual assortment of "do X damage to all heroes?" If you think about it, as long as all your heroes have either odd or even starting HP that particular card has a pretty good chance of ending any game before the first turn. I'm sure there will be an eratta removing it from the initial draw.
 
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Robrob wrote:
I haven't played against Wager Master yet but I assume he has the usual assortment of "do X damage to all heroes?" If you think about it, as long as all your heroes have either odd or even starting HP that particular card has a pretty good chance of ending any game before the first turn.

He really doesn't. You'd have to start with all heroes on the same 'type' of even/odd HP (I know there's a better word, help please!) and the cards would have to come out in the correct order for it to work, it's a long shot (but that's really what Wager Master is all about!).

Robrob wrote:
I'm sure there will be an eratta removing it from the initial draw.

And I'm equally sure it wont.
In discussions in playtesting we have a game where one hero was dealt a single point of damage, making all heroes on even HP, and then a card was played that prevented targets from taking damage, that was a win at the end of the second Villain turn. When questioned Christopher said that 'gimmicky' wins like that were part and parcel of Wager Master schtick.
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So I'm pretty sure "even" means "divisible by 2" in this case, as there is another card in Wager Master's deck, The New Deal, that deals 3 damage to each hero with an even amount of HP.

I also mathed it out, here are the odds you'll beat Wager Master before you even have a chance to take a turn:

All Odd Max HP Heroes - 15.23%
All Even Max HP Heroes - 9.93%
Mixture of Even/Odd - 0%

So it's not a razor-edge case, but it can be avoided (if you want to) by playing with a mixed group of even/odd max HP heroes.
 
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A Wong
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Has anyone lost to having all Wageleings come out as the starting conditions?

 
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If all Heroes are defeated (at zero HP), do they win because of Losing to the Odds?

Wager Master wrote:
"I won! I WON!

...oh...

...oh no...

..I bet on you to win....

You foolish humans! You've outsmarted me this time! Stop whining and bleeding like that, I'm trying to be a good sport and congratulate you!"
 
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Cinnibar wrote:
If all Heroes are defeated (at zero HP), do they win because of Losing to the Odds?

Zero is neither even nor odd.
However incapacitated heroes have NO HP, not zero (there's no number on their incap side see).

Heroes would not win be being incapped, though that is a nice scenario you outlined in the dialogue!
 
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Jason Green
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[q="Matchstickman"]
Zero is neither even nor odd.[q]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parity_of_zero

Other than that I would say you are correct that incapped heroes don't count as even.
 
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SmackleFunky wrote:
Matchstickman wrote:

Zero is neither even nor odd.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parity_of_zero

Other than that I would say you are correct that incapped heroes don't count as even.


The card actually specifies Hero targets, and incapacitated heroes aren't targets AFAIK.

Also, the name's pretty obviously a play on words with even/odd, which would further imply that when it says "even" it does, in fact, mean "even," not "equal."
 
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Do you need to beat Wager Master using one of his gimmicky cards, or can you beat him into the ground as usual?
 
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hommetruite wrote:
Do you need to beat Wager Master using one of his gimmicky cards, or can you beat him into the ground as usual?

You can pound him into the ground so long as Who Are You Fighting? is not in play, though even if that card is in play the heroes can still win through target destruction (e.g. Sucker Punch or Wrathful Gaze) because they don't lower his HP.
 
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While it might be in-flavor to win the game this way, I would find it a waste of shuffling, now that I'm past the stage where WM has cards which I don't know about. I think I'm going to houserule this one, despite having never intentionally altered the official rules before. Two of my three WM games to date ended due to LttO (heh, "lotto"); he needs to have it in his deck or else Who Are You Fighting would be a game over against most parties (there's another Condition that gives you a win, but it's really hard; most of them make you lose instead). Something like "At the start of the villain turn, if a hero has full HP, put this on the bottom of the villain deck" would make a simple fix.

awong wrote:
Has anyone lost to having all Wageleings come out as the starting conditions?


He only has four Wagelings in the deck, and they don't beat the heroes unless there are more of them, and they check at the start of the turn. If you play with H=3, and he manages to get the fourth Wageling as his card play (vastly unlikely, but I've seen this kind of luck happen often enough), you still have one round to be able to kill one Wageling before you lose. Though there's still a risk of a bonus card play flipping an Impossible Quandary and bringing the dead Wageling back.

Incidentally when I first played WM, I misread Impossible Quandary (hehe, IQ) at first, thinking it said "flip a Condition face-down". Fortunately I caught it before we'd gone very far, but I think it was a good idea; we put a lot of thought into what might happen if you flipped Playing Dice With The Cosmos in the middle of the heroes' turn sequence, causing it to stop being reversed.
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Slyght wrote:
So I'm pretty sure "even" means "divisible by 2" in this case, as there is another card in Wager Master's deck, The New Deal, that deals 3 damage to each hero with an even amount of HP.

I also mathed it out, here are the odds you'll beat Wager Master before you even have a chance to take a turn:

All Odd Max HP Heroes - 15.23%
All Even Max HP Heroes - 9.93%
Mixture of Even/Odd - 0%

So it's not a razor-edge case, but it can be avoided (if you want to) by playing with a mixed group of even/odd max HP heroes.

Actually, 0% is not the case at all, as I just won my very first game against The Wager Master in this exact manner with mixed-HP Heroes.

I used Guise (27), Unity (26), Scholar of the Infinite (31) and Setback (31). Initial Condition cards, in order, were:

1. The New Deal
2. Who Are You Fighting?
3. Wagelings
4. Losing to the Odds

Villain draw reveals Playing Dice with the Cosmos, which only reverses the order of the Heroes. Next, The New Deal causes all Hero targets with even HP to deal themselves 3 psychic damage; only Unity is hurt and goes down to 23. Wagelings then deal each Hero target 1 melee damage, knocking everyone to an even number below their starting HP. Next up is Losing to the Odds, and game over, just like that!

Note the exact same result would have occurred if I had two even-HP and two odd-HP Heroes, or 3-and-1. Needless to say, I sat there thinking, "That can't be all there is to it?" and immediately hopped onto this Forum for confirmation.

I should probably give The Wager Master another shot, but I can't say I really have respect for nor a good initial opinion of this Villain if the possibility exists that instant victory can potentially hinge on something so trivial as the status of the Heroes' HP (not to mention when the setup took longer than the actual game, even if it was a total fluke).
 
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WM is usually a joke villain like that; you should always play against him with an intention to possibly play a second game immediately thereafter, if he gets one of these ridiculous openings. On the other hand, sometimes he can turn out to be quite vicious. Here's a brief game report from the one really terrifying encounter I've had from him.

Wags's initial layout of Conditions had included two Wagelings and The New Deal (along with An Unwise Wager, which we agreed was unwise), so we were taking a lot of damage; I used Wraith's IREP to try and dig for one of the two winning cards (and avoid Who Are You Fighting, since we'd initially decided to beat down on Wags - not having noticed that the New Deal healed him). It didn't work. As we'd worked on killing some Wagelings, I picked Burning Sense of Failure over the unpleasantness of a second Unanswerable Question, but this proved a painful decision, and after we actually took the Wager, the number of face-down cards was enough of a problem that we needed to desperately avoid Impossible Quandary. Throw in the Apprentice Poisoner and a rapidly-growing legion of Shinobi, and things were getting unpleasant fast; with several cards face down, Increased Stakes was declared, and suddenly Wags himself was damaging us directly (I'll give credit where it's due, he definitely changes the game once you let him flip, even if it's generally not hard to avoid this occurring).

We got some help, it seemed, in the form of Mysterious Ceremonies, and the first card that came out from that was Rites of Revival, which seemed like it would come in quite handy. With the New Deal coming between Wagelings, it hadn't been too hard to keep our HP totals odd or even as desired and avoid ever facing the issue; Chrono-Ranger healed with his Dead or Alive ("We're honestly not sure!") Bounty, but later had to shoot himself in the face after healing in order to avoid taking the Deal, dying, and ending the game. This whole time, Sky-Scraper was finding it difficult to accomplish anything, having gotten a singularly bad draw for the circumstances (naturally she found Proportionist, but wasted her Aggression Modulators on Poisoners), and later having to take all the Shinobi draw-blocks because she was the only one with a card-drawing power, however undesirable.

But the real problem was yet to come - first Wags put out a What Do You Really Know - which, thanks to a Shinobi on Sky-Scraper's deck, led to the hilarious situation of shuffling hero cards AND an Environment card into Wags's deck. (And the card doesn't discuss the presence of Environment cards there, so they just sat on top of his deck for entire rounds). Then The Master's Presence brought forth the True Form with an explosion of damage; naturally I could no longer find an Aggression Modulator (I don't think I even thought of trying to Sneak out the one previously played), and as a second What Do You Really Know ramped up the card-abduction, we started setting off psychic bombs left and right. Unity was the first to die, but then Zhu Long resurrected her, but after all the rest of us died, she succumbed again.
 
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