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Subject: Still Looking for these HIS "firsts"... rss

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Ed Beach
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Well this week we saw the first report of a Protestant Auto Win (Religious Victory) from Tod Reiser. However, there are a bunch of other rare HIS occurrences that I have not yet seen. So here is a list of HIS events that I am personally waiting for a first report of them to come in. Let me know if you've seen any of these:

Military Victories from:
- Ottoman
- England
- Papacy (though we had one in playtesting when they only needed 6 keys)

Domination Victories from any power: We had one by Papacy in the 8th game ever tried and another by my French in one of the very first PBEM playtests. I haven't seen one of these in almost two years though (the last was at Christmas 2004).

Women English Rulers:
I haven't seen Mary rule England in a long time either (the last time was early in Internet playtesting). I've never heard of Elizabeth taking the throne at all.

Strange Circumnavigators: I've seen Rut circumnavigate several times, and I saw Cabot do it once, but I'm not sure I've ever seen a 0 or lower explorer do it. I've seen Narvaez get through the Pacific Strait ... but he didn't make it through the Pacific back to Europe.

Monstrous Burnings/Disgraces: I've seen plenty of "1"s and "2"s get burnt. And I saw Melanchthon go into the flames once. But never any of the other "3"s or "4"s. There was a solitaire playtester who claimed to have burnt Luther at the stake, but I'm not counting that!

Captured Capitals/Keys: I have seen almost every fortified space fall. I think the only exceptions are: Salonika, Istanbul, and London. Yes two capitals that I've never seen taken!

So who has a good story about one of these?
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Philip Thomas
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I burnt luther when solitaire playtesting, but I had misunderstood the rules and thought I needed one less papal hit than I really needed, 4 not 5.

How many games reach turn 9? That could be relevant to the female rulers point...

Have you seen many English or French Conquests in the New World?
 
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Ed Beach
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Quote:
How many games reach turn 9? That could be relevant to the female rulers point...


1532 scenarios often reach Turn 9. For the 1517 scenario, it is much rarer. Since most people play 1517, we haven't seen it much.

Quote:
Have you seen many English or French Conquests in the New World?


Sure, especially if they draw Smallpox. But even without it you get one of these every couple of games.
 
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Greg Forster
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Ed Beach wrote:
Quote:
Have you seen many English or French Conquests in the New World?


Sure, especially if they draw Smallpox. But even without it you get one of these every couple of games.


You mean people spend 4 CP on a voyage of conquest even knowing they will only win on a 9 or higher? Am I wrong to think that this is a collossal waste of CP?

The point about capitals not being taken is relevant to the idea being tossed around on an earlier thread about potentially introducing a variant to increase the incentive to take capitals.
 
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Philip Thomas
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Well I would never go for an English or French Conquest without Smallpox, like Greg I guess. I supppose if you do one every turn its bound to work some day

Increasing the rewards for taking a capital unfairly benefits the Ottomans, I think. Ed has the stats though, so maybe he can confirm my theory that Vienna is by far the most frequently captured capital?

I don't think the fact that Istanbul and London aren't getting captured is a problem, since it reflects the historical reality.

I'm more interested in the games where Valladoid got captured...
 
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Ed Beach
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Just from memory, I'd have to list the capitals like this:

FREQUENTLY TAKEN

Vienna

OCCASIONALLY TAKEN

Paris

ONCE OR TWICE

Rome
Valladolid

NEVER

Istanbul
London
 
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Alberto Buj
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Hi!!!
In my last game at home, I was playing with Papacy and Protestant player disgraced me 4 debaters!!!! Is a very good bonus for Protestant player, in fact he won this game. If I don´t remember wrong, I think it was 5 VPs!!!
I tried to capture Istambul with hapsburg but i won game before
Bye!!!
 
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Lawrence Hung
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Well, here is some of the answers to your questions after today's play, the second time we played the game:

Ed Beach wrote:
Well this week we saw the first report of a Protestant Auto Win (Religious Victory) from Tod Reiser. However, there are a bunch of other rare HIS occurrences that I have not yet seen. So here is a list of HIS events that I am personally waiting for a first report of them to come in. Let me know if you've seen any of these:

Military Victories from:
- Ottoman
- England
- Papacy (though we had one in playtesting when they only needed 6 keys)


Ottoman won this game with military victory with a very close runner-up by the Protestant. Ottoman looted and defeated Hapsburg at Buda with a 2 VPs to reach 25. England was mostly on the defensive and passive side during the whole war.

Ed Beach wrote:
Domination Victories from any power: We had one by Papacy in the 8th game ever tried and another by my French in one of the very first PBEM playtests. I haven't seen one of these in almost two years though (the last was at Christmas 2004).


Ed Beach wrote:
Women English Rulers: I haven't seen Mary rule England in a long time either (the last time was early in Internet playtesting). I've never heard of Elizabeth taking the throne at all.


We finished the game by turn 6. So it's not easy to see Elizabeth cam eto throne. After several marrigaes, Henry still couldn't find a health boy baby.

Ed Beach wrote:
Strange Circumnavigators: I've seen Rut circumnavigate several times, and I saw Cabot do it once, but I'm not sure I've ever seen a 0 or lower explorer do it. I've seen Narvaez get through the Pacific Strait ... but he didn't make it through the Pacific back to Europe.


Spanish explorer did well in our game. He brought the fortune from the New World and had a long cards in hand...9 cards at the high time as I recalled.

Ed Beach wrote:
Monstrous Burnings/Disgraces: I've seen plenty of "1"s and "2"s get burnt. And I saw Melanchthon go into the flames once. But never any of the other "3"s or "4"s. There was a solitaire playtester who claimed to have burnt Luther at the stake, but I'm not counting that!


Our Pope burnt just 2, one is a 1 and the other is a 2. No, we didn't see Luther get burned...

Ed Beach wrote:
Captured Capitals/Keys: I have seen almost every fortified space fall. I think the only exceptions are: Salonika, Istanbul, and London. Yes two capitals that I've never seen taken!


So who has a good story about one of these[/q]



Overall, I thought we went through the game in a normal course of action. Did we?
 
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Philip Thomas
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An Ottoman military victory is one where the Ottoman player takes the requisite number of keys on his card. 25 VPs is not a military victory, even if all 25 of them were won in battle.
 
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robin goblin
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In one of the last pre-release online games, which finished just last week!, the situation at game end was Ottoman on 26, Hapsburg and French on 24, both with Conquistadors looking to take over the Aztecs. Needless to say, my 3 conquistador for my Hapsburgs failed miserably, while the French 0 brought down the Aztecs, winning the game....(both the Hap and French players had had more vps at the end of the previous game)....so there's a French Conquistador story.....

Robin
 
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Philip Thomas
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previous turn, you mean?
 
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Matthew Barratt
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Another 'first' I would be interested in is if anyone has used the Baltic or Black seas.
 
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Matthew Barratt
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Quote:
Domination Victories from any power: We had one by Papacy in the 8th game ever tried and another by my French in one of the very first PBEM playtests. I haven't seen one of these in almost two years though (the last was at Christmas 2004).

I got the 5 point lead as the Habsburgs on turn 6 last Saturday, but I also reached 25 points the same turn, so I am not sure if that counts.
 
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Ed Beach
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Sorry, I don't really count that as a Domination win. I'd still consider that a Standard victory.

You're right about the Baltic and Black Sea zones. I've never seen them used either. I'm pretty sure I've seen every SPACE on the map used at one time or another, but not those sea zones.
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Ed Beach
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Well one "first" I didn't ask about but should have just came up. In the PBEM game HIS112 (which started off with very experienced players including 4 HIS playtesters ... Paul Nied, Matthew Beach, Jim Adams and Brian Conlon), we just had the first game I've ever seen that hit a point in time where all six players had the exact same VP total. Looks like they are deep in Turn 7 and all six of them are now at 21 VP.

This one has been going since just after publication and appears to be headed into a Turn 8 unless some power makes a dramatic 4 VP move. There certainly isn't going to be a Domination Victory here!
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Ed Beach
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OK, I just saw my first Ottoman military victory. A refereed PBEM (HIS126) just finished. John Keating (our Ottoman) ignored piracy entirely all game. Focused just on being a land power. DOW'd a neutral Venice on Turn 3 and took it. At the start of Turn 4 there was some interesting diplomacy. Somehow the Papacy gave the Trent space to the Hapsburg, and the Ottoman and Hapsburg allied ... allowing the Ottomans in Venice to move on against the French in Milan. So the Ottomans DOW'd France, took Milan and Genoa, and were 1 key short of a military victory with 2 cards left. 1 of these cards was Fuggers. They played it and drew Roxelana and Landsknechts. They used them both against Marseille and took out the space in 1 action. Deadly!
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Ed Beach
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Another first just reported: Istanbul has been captured. Check out this report from PBEM referee Mark Greenwood...

---------------

In HIS123, the Hapsburgs have taken Istanbul, which is the first time this is known to happen according to Ed.

I'll give a brief rundown of the turn:

1. Turn 4 starts with Hapsburgs at war with Ottomans and Protestants, Ottomans with a superior army deploying to Belgrade (Buda in Hapsburg hands). Hapsburg deploy Duke and two units to Cartagena. Charles is in Trier after taking that last turn. Hapsburgs have six squadrons in the Med, plus 4 on loan from the Papacy/Venetians. Turks have two corsairs in Algiers and three squadrons in Aegaen ports. Ottomans have 4 cards plus home card, Hapsburgs 9 plus home card.

2. In first couple of impulses Ottomans move on Buda, put it under siege with Suleiman and have Ibrahim circle toward Vienna via Graz. Hapsburgs reinforce Vienna and Cartagena on first impulse and then play Diplomatic Overture to grow their hand.

3. Turks weaken Buda on first assault and continue to threaten Vienna.

4. Papacy plays Knights of St John which leaves Ottomans only with their home card, which will they will have to play next round and leave them cardless.

5. Turks take Buda and pull back Ibrahim from Graz to Buda and add a cav to empty Istanbul.

6. Hapsburgs start on their offensive to Istanbul. Their armada is moved to cover the Barbary Coast, Ionian and Aegean seas. Charles, the Duke and 4 units transport to Istanbul while Ferdinand moves Vienna into Graz and Agram.

7. Istanbul falls to Charles and Ferdinand moves to put defenseless Belgrade under siege.

8. Fresh from their victory, Charles, the Duke and the 4 Hapsburgs continue their attack and move on defenseless Edirne. Three Ottoman units in Salonika (with help of a cav on a roll of eight) intercept from Salonika.

9. In the field battle, the Hapsburgs score just one hit on 6 dice, the Ottomans 3 on their 4 dice. The Ottomans win the field battle in Edirne. Unfortunately for the Hapsburgs, denomination restraints prevent them from only taking 3 losses, they must lose all 4 units in the formation. Charles and the Duke are now captured in the battle!

10. Ferdinand assaults and takes Belgrade.

A very interesting turn. A deadly blow by the Hapsburgs to take Istanbul and Belgrade. Suleiman's 8 unit army in Buda will lose half their force in winter since only 4 can stack in a fortified space and units in fortified spaces can only return to a capital, not move to some other fortified space. However, it has come at a price. Charles and the Duke are in a Turkish jail and though they hold Istanbul, it is empty of Hapsburg units.

BTW, Simon Haldon is the Hapsburg player and Jason Diamond the Ottoman. Should be interesting diplomacy next turn!
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Karl Kleve
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That was really some interesting moves. Why did Habsburg send both leaders on the assault into the Ottoman heartlands? It sure will be interesting to hear what results the diplomacy will bring. I hope you or one of the players will give us a hint later on.
 
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Ian Rowswell
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Last night I played England and the Prodestants in a 3 player game. On turn 6 I pulled Mary queen of scots in the Prodestant hand (shudder). I was at about 22 points with England so I was able to save mary until I played all my English cards and reformed the heck out of england for the win.

Also a few weeks ago we almost burned Luther on the first turn. Only one success away.
 
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Matthew Barratt
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Ed Beach wrote:


Women English Rulers:
I haven't seen Mary rule England in a long time either (the last time was early in Internet playtesting). I've never heard of Elizabeth taking the throne at all.


Captured Capitals/Keys: I have seen almost every fortified space fall. I think the only exceptions are: Salonika, Istanbul, and London. Yes two capitals that I've never seen taken!

So who has a good story about one of these?

I once had my Rome captured by a Marian army that used spring preperation to redeploy through the German lands of her Protestant and Habsburg allies. I was valiantly trying not to completely counter-reform England, in order to retain the 50% chance that England's Treachery card would be turned into a debate and book burning, but it wasn't to be.
 
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Philip Thomas
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I've seen 2 English military victories, it isn't difficult once you've got France on the ropes...

I've also seen Mary on the throne, though not Elizabeth.
 
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Todd Pytel
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I was a die roll away from capturing London in the first game I played (with a bunch of vets, so I don't think it was a mistake). Thanks to loaned Hapburg naval units, sheer English obstinance, and several well-timed Spring Preparations cards, my French had been beating up on the English for nearly the whole game. Towards the end of the game, I was only one key away from victory and the English position was a wreck. All I had to do was get to London and I'd win, and I had the one card remaining that I needed to do it. Unfortunately, an English army (outside of London I guess - I don't remember the details) intercepted my force and dashed my hopes. But had he whiffed that interception roll, London would have gone down.
 
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Matthew Barratt
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Ed Beach wrote:

Matthew Barratt wrote:

I got the 5 point lead as the Habsburgs on turn 6 last Saturday, but I also reached 25 points the same turn, so I am not sure if that counts.

Sorry, I don't really count that as a Domination win. I'd still consider that a Standard victory.


I yet again had a Domination win denied to me by that pesky 25VP barrier. My England gained a sickly Edward, 8 Protestant spaces, Paris and the Mississippi in turn 4 to leap from 13 VP to 25 VP with my nearest rivals on 18VP. Assuming that Copernicus was in neither the Ottoman nor Protestant hand then I would have had a real Domination win if Chancellor's had rolled 7 or less for his exploration.
 
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Matthew Barratt
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Ed Beach wrote:

Strange Circumnavigators: I've seen Rut circumnavigate several times, and I saw Cabot do it once, but I'm not sure I've ever seen a 0 or lower explorer do it. I've seen Narvaez get through the Pacific Strait ... but he didn't make it through the Pacific back to Europe.


I was in a game last year where Willoughby (the English 0 explorer) circumnavigated to give England the victory. If the circumnavigation hadn't come off then England would have been in trouble, as Henry was excomunicated and also sharing a Parisian jail cell with Brandon.
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Max DuBoff
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I know this thread is really old, but...

In a 3-player game, I saw Luther burned. The Pope/Hapsburgs won the game on Turn One (!) of 1517 when the Pope reached 25.

As England in a full 6-player game, I once got a little reckless, and France and I traded capitals. Turns out I didn't know the rule that the one who sues first has to give all his opponent's spaces back...
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