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Subject: Project update - Quick play, Improved rules, Challenges rss

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Tom Stasiak
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A new version of the rulebook can be found here:
http://www.bdgames.pl/Doomrock/doomrock_web_v2.pdf

The rules were moderated by Chris and now cover most if not all questions answered by the FAQ.
The questions were caused by the flaws in the rulebook rather than on cards, which is sort of good news.
Thanks for doing the fan FAQ files by the way.

Also, I have implemented some notable changes in the game rules.

Ability charges
At the same time, no more dice sets may be placed on an ability card, than the amount that would allow a hero to activate it number of times indicated by the charge symbols.
In other words, charges now indicate an immediate dice limit, rather than the limit of ability activations during a round.

Ability activation
Abilities may be now activated any number of times during a round as long as heroes can find a way to place dice in the cards during a round, following the charge limit.

Dice steal
The returned stolen dice must now be rolled after retrieval and may be immediately assigned to ability cards. This should make the dice steal mechanic a bit more fun, rewarding and less punishing, which may be the case in 2 player games.

Hidden
A hidden rule has been simplified and redirect mechanic has been removed. I felt that this whole mechanic was too convoluted and at the same time not especially useful.

I recommend a quick run through of the paragraphs having to do with these points.
Also, an official quick(er) play variant is now present at the end of the rulebook.


This is a link to the achievement sheet, which is a printable A4 page:
http://www.bdgames.pl/Doomrock/doomrock_achievement_sheet.pd...

It was meant to be something else, but some original ideas really did not work in practice. Other ideas conflicted with the stuff we are planning to do for the expansion.
So this did not turn especially grand, but I am hoping some people may still get some kick out of it. By the way Avdima, thanks for the image... i think. : P


There will also be an expansion announcement this week. So yeah, there you have it. An official announcement for the official expansion announcement.
Well, thanks again for the support everyone. Have a good year.






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Joel Carr
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Re: Project update - Quick play, Improved rules, Challanges
wow, definitely a game changer:



Quote:
Ability charges
At the same time, no more dice sets may be placed on an ability card, than the amount that would allow a hero to activate it number of times indicated by the charge symbols.
In other words, charges now indicate an immediate dice limit, rather than the limit of ability activations during a round.

Ability activation
Abilities may be now activated any number of times during a round as long as heroes can find a way to place dice in the cards during a round, following the charge limit.

This will ease the difficulty a fair amount, but should be more fun..

Played a game with the family yesterday and we went through the beasts of doom successfully, my wife complained that she could only use the ray of doom once per round...(she is a lucky roller)... the above changes nips that in the bud

Super excited for expansion news...

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Christopher Niewiadomski
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Re: Project update - Quick play, Improved rules, Challanges
I am here to take all the hate for this idea of a reward.

Send the filled sheet to Microsoft, maybe they will give you some Microsoft Points for Xbox Live. I don't know, I never asked them (and they never asked for that).

I don't know what I am babbling about. Maybe that's from lack of rule questions in the past weeks.
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Brian Hunt
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Thanks for your's (and Chris') efforts with this. I'll give the new rules a whirl next week.

Look forward to hearing about the expansion...
 
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Quijanoth
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madyoss wrote:

Ability charges
At the same time, no more dice sets may be placed on an ability card, than the amount that would allow a hero to activate it number of times indicated by the charge symbols.
In other words, charges now indicate an immediate dice limit, rather than the limit of ability activations during a round.

Ability activation
Abilities may be now activated any number of times during a round as long as heroes can find a way to place dice in the cards during a round, following the charge limit.


I've read this a half dozen times and it still doesn't make any sense to me. Is this is saying that if I place a single appropriate die on a two charge ability, I can use the ability twice? And if I place a second die on a two-charge ability, I can use the ability four times in a round?
Very confusing.
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Rob Hendon

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madyoss wrote:

Ability charges
At the same time, no more dice sets may be placed on an ability card, than the amount that would allow a hero to activate it number of times indicated by the charge symbols.
In other words, charges now indicate an immediate dice limit, rather than the limit of ability activations during a round.

Ability activation
Abilities may be now activated any number of times during a round as long as heroes can find a way to place dice in the cards during a round, following the charge limit.

I am a little confused about the ability activation updates. I feel like I was playing abilities that way the whole time. Was I incorrect in thinking the charges were the amount of dice you put on an ability and you could use the ability said number of times as placed dice?
 
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Mike Daneman
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magusx12 wrote:
madyoss wrote:

Ability charges
At the same time, no more dice sets may be placed on an ability card, than the amount that would allow a hero to activate it number of times indicated by the charge symbols.
In other words, charges now indicate an immediate dice limit, rather than the limit of ability activations during a round.

Ability activation
Abilities may be now activated any number of times during a round as long as heroes can find a way to place dice in the cards during a round, following the charge limit.

I am a little confused about the ability activation updates. I feel like I was playing abilities that way the whole time. Was I incorrect in thinking the charges were the amount of dice you put on an ability and you could use the ability said number of times as placed dice?

Same here. I don't understand how the Ability Charges rule is a change. Was it possible before to put more dice on an ability than it has charges? If so, what would have been the purpose since the extra dice would be wasted. Or would the extra dice have been just as a buffer in case if dice steal?

Ability activation I think is a change, since now you can use a charge limited ability and then, if you get or recover dice (such as stolen dice), you can put them on that ability and use it again. Right?
 
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Barry Siebenthall
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Quijanoth wrote:
madyoss wrote:

Ability charges
At the same time, no more dice sets may be placed on an ability card, than the amount that would allow a hero to activate it number of times indicated by the charge symbols.
In other words, charges now indicate an immediate dice limit, rather than the limit of ability activations during a round.

Ability activation
Abilities may be now activated any number of times during a round as long as heroes can find a way to place dice in the cards during a round, following the charge limit.


I've read this a half dozen times and it still doesn't make any sense to me. Is this is saying that if I place a single appropriate die on a two charge ability, I can use the ability twice? And if I place a second die on a two-charge ability, I can use the ability four times in a round?
Very confusing.

I believe it means you still must place the number of dice for the number of planned activations. However, if you somehow receive another die during the battle round, you may immediately assign it to a vacant ability slot. This may allow you to use that ability an additional time beyond the number indicated on the card.

One known way to receive another die is to kill a monster that stole one. Perhaps the expansion will have additional methods for gaining a new die.
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Tom Stasiak
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Quote:
I believe it means you still must place the number of dice for the number of planned activations. However, if you somehow receive another die during the battle round, you may immediately assign it to a vacant ability slot. This may allow you to use that ability an additional time beyond the number indicated on the card.

This is correct. It is an insignificant change in regards to roll phase, but now allows for further ability activations later during the round.

I found this rule rather difficult to write down in English and I see that this rulebook entry might need some work. I am open for suggestions by the way.
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Mike Daneman
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Got it. Thanks. I reread it enough times and was getting to the same conclusion.

Looking at the actual rules, the rules about charges is worded in a confusing way
Quote:
Charges: Rune symbols indicate the maximum number of dice sets that may be assigned to a card in order to activate the ability once.

It could be read in way that, for a 2 charge ability, you need to place two sets of dice on it to activate it once. The examples do clarify this, but a better wording may be:

Charges: Rune symbols indicate the maximum number of dice sets (each dice set sufficient to activate the ability once) that may be assigned to a card at the same time.
 
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Rob Hendon

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The rulebook entry is fine to me. Just without the original book in front of me, and given how I was playing ability activation before, it was difficult to see what the actual change was. Very excited for the expansion, by the way!
 
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Jacob Peck
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Another way of getting another die activated mid-battle is with the "Spellbook" ability of the Mage. It lets you rotate a set die to the opposite face and re-apply it to another ability. This means that with some clever trickery, the Mage can cast Ray of Doom multiple times, for example.
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Kevin Rakestraw
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If you are hidden, can enemies still move toward you and attack?
 
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Tom Stasiak
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Quote:
If you are hidden, can enemies still move toward you and attack?

Yes. I added another 'away' word in the rulebook now, just to make sure that this rule is not misunderstood.
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Mike Daneman
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madyoss wrote:
Quote:
If you are hidden, can enemies still move toward you and attack?

Yes. I added another 'away' word in the rulebook now, just to make sure that this rule is not misunderstood.

So how does hidden work when the AI card says "engaged". If a monster is adjacent to only the hidden hero, is the monster considered engaged or not?
 
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Tom Stasiak
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You know what. Never mind that rule change.
It is a bit embarrassing but it finally occurred to me how to write the original hidden mechanic in a clear way. Besides people keep telling me that the recent change was not helping.

The rule now reads:

Quote:
-Hidden hero has threat value of zero.
-The hero is never considered surrounded.
-Once per round, before a hidden hero activates an enemy, he or she may decide that another hero will be activating this enemy as an active player instead of the hidden hero.

Hidden heroes may decide to stop being hidden anytime during a round. A hero also stops being hidden if attacked or at the end of the round.

This is pretty much the same as the original redirect one, except slightly buffed up, cleaned up and should not confuse anyone anymore.
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Damon Asher
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Excellent. Thanks for continuing to improve this great game Tom. The dice steal change is a good idea and might be just what is needed to stem the Zombies complaints. Looking forward to the expansion!
 
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madyoss wrote:
You know what. Never mind that rule change.
It is a bit embarrassing but it finally occurred to me how to write the original hidden mechanic in a clear way. Besides people keep telling me that the recent change was not helping.

The rule now reads:

Quote:
-Hidden hero has threat value of zero.
-The hero is never considered surrounded.
-Once per round, before a hidden hero activates an enemy, he or she may decide that another hero will be activating this enemy as an active player instead of the hidden hero.

Hidden heroes may decide to stop being hidden anytime during a round. A hero also stops being hidden if attacked or at the end of the round.

This is pretty much the same as the original redirect one, except slightly buffed up, cleaned up and should not confuse anyone anymore.

So what's the buff exactly? That the Redirect does not un-hide the active hero anymore?

I am still confused by Hidden, even with the new wording. Can I choose which hero can activate the enemy?

Saying that 'another hero will be' - where does that another hero come from and what happens if the hidden hero is the only one?

Original Redirect mentioned 'adjacent' hero for Redirect, does this still stand? And if it does, is the adjacent hero adjacent to active Hidden hero or the monster that is being activated?

And one more question about Hidden, which still seems relatively weak in my opinion (other than that it helps you get out of being surrounded), right now it is a reactive skill, rather than offensive one. You cannot hide to do a sneak attack.

I recommend another slight buff, such as giving an extra hero token for every character that is hidden at the time the round ends. But maybe it causes other balance issues.
 
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Joel Carr
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gatesphere wrote:
Another way of getting another die activated mid-battle is with the "Spellbook" ability of the Mage. It lets you rotate a set die to the opposite face and re-apply it to another ability. This means that with some clever trickery, the Mage can cast Ray of Doom multiple times, for example.

yes, also the reaction where you get to roll additional dice gets even better.
 
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Sarah Knopf
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Awesome. Looking forward to trying out the quick play rules.
 
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Barry Siebenthall
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Slashdoctor wrote:

I recommend another slight buff, such as giving an extra hero token for every character that is hidden at the time the round ends. But maybe it causes other balance issues.

Maybe placing an Expose marker on each monster for one or more Hidden characters at the end of the round. That might be pretty thematic!
 
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Thank you for the update and for supporting your game. I'm very fond of the changes.

The changes to how ability charges work is an easy fix, intuitive, and adds fun and more strategic options to the game. It also gives some abilities some great new features (like panic attack, as mentioned by someone else).

Die Steal is now much more fun than it was previously, and being able to re-roll and re-add a die when recovered could be a game-saving maneuver.

Hidden frankly just makes more sense now, thanks for that. Is it intentional, then, that a hidden hero remains hidden even after they perform an attack and it is only involuntarily broken when they themselves are attacked?

As to your achievement list, have you thought about having achievements that can be unlocked 'during' the game (Mice & Mystics does this) that provide some perks? There could even be a PNP deck of achievement cards. Example based on your list:

Tank and Spank: Take 7 damage during a single round, after using "Tank"
Effect: When a Warrior who has activated Tank is attacked, the attacker receives an expose marker after the attack.

Wonderful game, by the way. Thanks, Tom.
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Can I spend retrieved dice that were stolen for heroism/shields? As written, no, but I'm not 100% sure that was the intent.

I think the change to die steal is for the better. It could be awfully harsh if it hit the wrong character at the wrong time.

and also: EXPANSION. YESSSSSS.
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Anthony Rubbo
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Slashdoctor wrote:
So what's the buff exactly? That the Redirect does not un-hide the active hero anymore?...

...Original Redirect mentioned 'adjacent' hero for Redirect, does this still stand?

My guess is removing the adjacency requirement constitutes the majority of the buff.
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LemonyFresh wrote:
Slashdoctor wrote:
So what's the buff exactly? That the Redirect does not un-hide the active hero anymore?...

...Original Redirect mentioned 'adjacent' hero for Redirect, does this still stand?

My guess is removing the adjacency requirement constitutes the majority of the buff.

And still being hidden after attacking, which is also a very neat buff. This can make rogue especially killerlike.
 
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