Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
12 Posts

Hacienda» Forums » Rules

Subject: What happens if no one can do anything and game is not over? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Jeff Michaud
United States
Longwood
Florida
flag msg tools
On-Line Want List Generator - Hopefully Making Math Trades a Little Bit Easier
badge
Captain Kirk, Captain Picard, Captain Sisko, Captain Janeway, Captain Archer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It has come up over at http://www.spielbyweb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=794 that due to players really messing up that you could end up in a state where the only legal move any of the players can make is pass (either don't have or can't play land/animals, and they are too broke to buy cards).

The English rules don't address this... is this addressed in the original German rules?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Bender
United States
Knoxville
Tennessee
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Does this mean that all land chains have been harvested?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Susan F.
Canada
Lethbridge
Alberta
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes, this only ever happens if there are less land chains than harvest chips and all of the land chains have been harvested.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dick Hunt
United States
Orlando
Florida
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
This doesn't even sound possible. I gotta check out that link!

There are only what--8 harvest chips available in Hacienda? You're telling us that there are fewer than 8 land chains on the board that could be harvested, and yet everyone is already too broke to buy cards?

No way! Did you guys all build huge land chains so that there weren't even 8 of them on the board? I've heard of friendly games, but did you all really sit there and allow your opponents to build land chains that huge without bothering to interrupt them?

Or are you just too proud to harvest the 1- or 2-hex land chains?

I don't think such a situation is covered in the rules because they never even thought it was possible!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Maarten D. de Jong
Netherlands
Zaandam
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
Re: What happens if no one can do anything and game is not o
It sounds like an extraordinary situation to be sure, and therefore it is perfectly understandable that the original German rules do not address this situation too.

I must say I find Zoldiz' comments in the discussion of that SbW-link ('the game is broken because it can get into an endless loop') extremely exxagerated and full of hubris to say the least. That guy needs to chill real bad.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris B
United States
Oxford
Mississippi
flag msg tools
Hotty Toddy Rebels!
badge
Lets go Blues!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: What happens if no one can do anything and game is not o
This is the game in question. And it wasn't exactly played very well. Only two players.

http://www.spielbyweb.com/game.php?games_id=12818
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Myke Madsen
United States
Salt Lake City
Utah
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: What happens if no one can do anything and game is not o
From what I've seen on SpielByWeb, every time this happens it's either

1) A game with newbies who don't understand the basic concepts of the game
2) A custom map that has not been sufficiently playtested and lacks sufficient area and/or markets.
3) Someone purposely going out of their way to achieve this condition to prove some point about the game being "broken"

The other related problem is what to do if just one player can't do anything. Should they really be relegated to just passing the rest of the game? What if a player could pass all three actions to get two or three pesos from the bank? Would that break the game in another way? Would it lead to stalling?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brent Mair
United States
Roy
Utah
flag msg tools
The Meeple Nation Boardgame Podcast - 30 minutes a week!
badge
BGGCon 2015 or Bust
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: What happens if no one can do anything and game is not o
SybotCB wrote:
This is the game in question. And it wasn't exactly played very well. Only two players.

http://www.spielbyweb.com/game.php?games_id=12818


What a sad game. Cut down in the prime of life, so much potential...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Inno Van
United States
San Francisco/East Bay
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Re: What happens if no one can do anything and game is not o
The reality is, all on-line games are plagued with a certain bored kind of person that isn't interested in winning the game, just destroying anyone elses ability to play the game either. They do things like wall in their allies, sit and taunt, and otherwise act like jerks.

Only 1 of the 11 animals blue placed scored anything. In fact, they carefully placed to avoid scoring any income, building around and outside the area they would score. And then wastes his remaining money building two lakes that do nothing but block his own moves.

Green does only slightly better, scoring with 3 animals of the 9 placed. But again, what's with the horse placement blocked by his own first herd? Why place animals at all when they can't score?

This game was two game blockers trying to destroy the game for anyone else playing it. There's just too many purposely bad moves here.

Addressing play this bad is frankly a waste of the designer's time. But if people insist, one solution would be whenever ALL players are deadlocked for one continuous round, each player may choose to remove ONE harvest tile back to the bank from their choice of their own land chains.

This way the game blocker will spend itself into no longer being able to play by doing expensive but possible things like buying water to block the other player's moves, and then the nuicance will be skipped over the rest of the game once they have zero income and no cards left.

But if everyone's a bored game wrecker and all players are locked... this solution will allow them to continue tormenting eachother.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Timothy Phelps
United States
Canal Fulton
Ohio
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I've only played the game one time, and it's quite obvious to me that this was two bozos intentionally trying to "break" the game. Instead, all they did was prove their idiocy.

Innovan wrote:
Addressing play this bad is frankly a waste of the designer's time.


Absolutely!

Innovan wrote:
But if people insist, one solution would be whenever ALL players are deadlocked for one continuous round, each player may choose to remove ONE harvest tile back to the bank from their choice of their own land chains.


I've got a better idea...if this happens, just start over.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Volker Kleinschmidt
United States
Illinois
flag msg tools
mb
Asyncritus wrote:
I've got a better idea...if this happens, just start over.


YESSS! Groundhog Day it is! You shall repeat the same dumb moves until you finally learn!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Liallan G
United States
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I realize this is a very old thread, but once someone brings it back up, discussion often starts again.

I cannot see the game log of that link, only the end-game position. (Well, I can see the written log, but cannot make sense of that without the visual.) So I only see the end.

As to people making really bad choices on the game, I once played with someone who did nothing but keep putting more and more animals down in the right corner, so he did continually get himself some money, but wasn't continuing to score anything. He'd already admitted to not "understanding" the game, but I concluded he didn't get the rules. I even got on chat and tried to help him and I'm not sure he understood. There was no intent on his part - he really didn't get it. Even watching 4 other players do things completely differently, he still didn't get it. I've never seen a score that low. (He hopped onto another game recently and I noticed he was playing better, though still badly lost.)

I often wonder why it does not occur to people that someone just doesn't know the rules. I know people who try to jump into a game without having read rules at all, and think they'll figure it out just playing, and might check them on occasion for something.

(Although I do know someone who tends to run out of money and get herself stuck. And yes, she basically also runs out of harvest space.)

I don't think these people are just bored game wreckers or have any specific intent. It's difficult to draw conclusions without talking to the people.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.