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Subject: New details about the war council now available rss

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Brian Philpott
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New details about the how to customise the war council is available to read on the Days of Wonder website.

Still not sure if I am going to get this myself but this game just gets more difficult to resist as more information is fed to us.
 
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Bobby Warren
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I'm guessing that the Hill Giant promo will qualify as a "Creature" on the Lore Council. Cool.
 
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Paul DeStefano
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This game looks to be edging towards the fiddly realm a bit more each day.
 
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Jeremy Carlson
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Hey Paul, could you or someone possibly define fiddly in game context for me? I've seen that mentioned a ton of places and I'm not sure what that means exactly.

If it means too much stuff to keep track of in this game....maybe. Almost like they keep adding things to make it more strategic, even though it doesn't seem adding any depth.

I'm already set on buying this, and I'm very excited to play...but I hope they stop now with adding things. So far, everything seems to be very good and will most likely work well together.

I think I would have preferred something like, everyone starts with the same war council at level one (all members), with ways to upgrade them in the game (possible lore cards/spells or winning a battle, or trading in lore tokens then picking which guy you want to up one). Not sure if picking your guys and assigning them levels is the way to go. Or, if you don't have the right guy, you can't cast the spell at all and can trade it in for a lore token.

Just my thoughts.
 
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Paul DeStefano
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Fiddly means rules that just have more exceptions than rules. Or excessive housekeeping. In either case, too much to remember.

Something like:
Knights get 2 attack dice.
Squires get 1 attack die.
Archers get 1 attack die.

If firing uphill, archers are -1 to their attack die. Unless the target is knights who have just routed in the prior phase, in which case they are minus two, or the archers have not fired last turn (except for the free firing phase for shooting squires). If the archers have fired at squires for two consecutive turns, all bonuses are lost.

The tons of exceptions and the needing to track them would be 'fiddly'. Do they make the game any better/different, or do they just add rules?

 
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David
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I don't see the War Council as very fiddly at all.

Basically, at the start of the game, you decide what strenghts and weaknessess you wish to have in the coming battle. More wizard powers, or more command cards, or more healing cards or whatever. You then set up the lore pool, deck and such as indicated.

From there on it's just draw a card and play. There's no real fiddliness here, and it allows you to customize your army to a certain extent.
 
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Ronster Zero
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Geosphere wrote:
Fiddly means rules that just have more exceptions than rules. Or excessive housekeeping. In either case, too much to remember.

Something like:
Knights get 2 attack dice.
Squires get 1 attack die.
Archers get 1 attack die.

If firing uphill, archers are -1 to their attack die. Unless the target is knights who have just routed in the prior phase, in which case they are minus two, or the archers have not fired last turn (except for the free firing phase for shooting squires). If the archers have fired at squires for two consecutive turns, all bonuses are lost.

The tons of exceptions and the needing to track them would be 'fiddly'. Do they make the game any better/different, or do they just add rules?



Yeah, but what if the the squires where routed when your fired on them for two consecutive phases.

Thanks for the definition. I had heard that term a lot also and pretty much applied this meaning to it. Just glad to see that somebody else has the same view.

Being a war gamer, it takes a little more for me to call a game fiddly than most.

This is on my want to buy list.
 
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Paul DeStefano
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Shryke wrote:
I don't see the War Council as very fiddly at all.


No single rule is fiddly, but it's the cumulative effect.


Quote:
If you opted to go deep, focusing all your level tokens on one or even a couple of Lore Masters, to maximize your starting Lore reserve and Lore cards, you are now increasingly likely to draw Lore cards from Lore Masters that are absent from your War Council. Each time you will want to play such a card, you will have to play it Out-of-Character (ie play it without having the required Lore Master class in your Council).Lore cards played out-of-character cost you 3 more Lore tokens to bring into play. Furthermore, these cards can only be played at level 1, regardless of the level of the other Lore Masters in your War Council.



If there's a lot of this type of ruling going to be going on... Fiddly ahoy.

But not yet from what they've shown.

 
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Gregg Prendergast
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Has anybody heard anything more concrete about the release of this game. Days of Wonder originally said the release would be in November. I just saw that Thoughthammer now has it scheduled for December. In addition, Days of Wonder is not yet taking pre-orders for this game which makes me think it's not as close to being released as we were led to believe. I want this one on the worst way for Christmas!
 
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David
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Pre-orders on the DOW sight go up tommorow.

Release date is late November as of last we heard.


Geosphere,

Still don't see the fiddly in what you quoted. If you don't have that particular specialty, you must pay more to use the card. It's basically a rule so that even if you draw a bunch of cards that aren't of your type, you can still use them, just at a penalty.

Maybe I just have a much higher tolerence for this sort of thing. I do generally love FFG games (Warrior Knights and Fure of Dracula are our groups current favorites)if that says anything.
 
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Paul DeStefano
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Shryke wrote:
Still don't see the fiddly in what you quoted.


Again, as I said, it is NOT fiddly. But if the previews are showing this, how much more will the rules show?
 
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Patrick McIntyre
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Having played Battle Cry & C&C:A, I would say that Battle Council is less "Fiddly" than the Leadership rules. The basic mechanic is clean (doesn't require as much refering to the rulebook), and the effects are written right on the cards.

I always seemed to be forgetting some small rule with leader effects, especially when playing C&C:A. That being said, I will miss the fun of coordinating the leader's position on the battlefield. Perhaps the "Guests" might be leader figures?
 
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Alexander B.
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I had no interest in this game up until these recent pieces of information. Now I'm up to about 95% sure I'm getting it.

I don't usually like games played on a small hex grid (prefer bigger) but between the components that are nice and made to my taste and some of the idea in this game, it really does look fun
 
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Paul DeStefano
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diamondspider wrote:
I don't usually like games played on a small hex grid (prefer bigger)


These hexes are pretty big for a wargame.
 
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Alexander B.
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Geosphere wrote:
diamondspider wrote:
I don't usually like games played on a small hex grid (prefer bigger)


These hexes are pretty big for a wargame.


Was actually talking about the number of hexes, but I did also note that the size was small in this game

I like big boards when possible. I'd always go for the 3-4 segment map scenarios in squad leader and avoid the 1 or 1/2 secments one. I think the grid here is about 1/2 segment or a bit more equivalent.
 
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Ken Takacs
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Well, Paul does not think the rules are fiddly based upon what he has seen yet, he only wondered whether they would be fiddly once they have been fully revealed.
 
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AxonDomini
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MrSkeletor wrote:
Got to disagree with Paul. This entry has FINALY begun to get me excited about the game.


Yep, this stuff about the war council finally pushed me over the edge (the morale rules had me pretty close). I'm pre-ordering this one at my FLGS tomorrow.
 
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Nathan Baumbach
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Compared to what I used to play (*cough*MtG*cough*), these rules fall in the "slightly" fiddly category with me. At least you don't have to have a giant trapper-keeper with color coded segments consisting of 200 pages of rules like some other wargames I could mention.

I'm all for trying to create a strategy for your army with different War Council members, instead of trying to make a strategy by what Council members you may have ten turns down the road.

 
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Ken Takacs
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Remember, we are seeing these rules for the first time, in bits and pieces, without having the game components in our hands. I am sure many of these rules become second nature after a couple of games.

I have played some wargames in the past where there were more exceptions to the rules than rules themselves. Those games, which purported to be more "realistic" required me to constantly refer to my notes and the rule book while playing. Rather than marveling over the greater "realism" those games supposedly offered, I saw them more as a chore to play, and finding opponents was difficult. In the end, I did not play those games enough to justify their cost. I have gotten away from those types of game and now appreciate a designer who can model warfare simply and elegantly. Commands and Colors: Ancients fits the bill perfectly, and I suspect BattleLore will too.
 
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Daniel Brown
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gpren wrote:
Has anybody heard anything more concrete about the release of this game. Days of Wonder originally said the release would be in November. I just saw that Thoughthammer now has it scheduled for December. In addition, Days of Wonder is not yet taking pre-orders for this game which makes me think it's not as close to being released as we were led to believe. I want this one on the worst way for Christmas!


Preorders are up and the estimate release is the last day of Nov.
 
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John Lopez
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generalpf wrote:
I do think they're cramming too much into the C&C system, similar to what the passengers did to TtR:Marklin.


You mean: made the game fun? I found the previous versions a bit boring, but the timing of the passenger moves made Marklin the only version I care to play now.

Different strokes for different mole rats, I guess.

As far as what I have seen with BattleLore, it looks a touch lighter than the Ancients system on "memorized" rules, and instead focuses the exceptions into the cards. That puts it in a pretty cherry spot in my book.
 
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