Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
13 Posts

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Gaming Related » Recommendations

Subject: Scheming/backstabbing behaviour in these games? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Andrea Jørgensen
Denmark
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I will not negotiate!
... or should I say: I will not backstab people in boardgames?

Okay, the problem is: I don’t like games where you’re supposed to betray people. Games like Junta and Diplomacy (where you’ll try to cheat people when you’re doing deals) that invite you to be scheming. Nevertheless I’ve discovered some interesting games lately... but unfortunately they’re probably too close to the style that I don’t like.

So... should I avoid the following games or not?

Vampire: Prince of the City
Here I Stand
The Hell Game
I’m the Boss
Mall of Horror
Oltremare
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Cote
United States
Maine
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Of these, I only know Oltremare. It has deals/trades, but they are direct without any possible backstabbing.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon David Faeth
United States
Hilliard
Ohio
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmb
Little Dragon wrote:
I don’t like games where you’re supposed to betray people...

Mall of Horror

On the box it clearly states "survival is in the betrayal," and it means it.

You may want to stay clear.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Hollinsworth
United States
Cranston
Rhode Island
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You may want to look at Genoa. The entire game is negotiation, but there is no backstabbing.

(Or, to be clear, it is possible to make a deal and then decide to do something else instead, but in that case, the original exchange is never made, so neither party gains or loses anything. In other words, it's never possible to accept goods from someone and then give him nothing in return.)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrea Jørgensen
Denmark
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
ected wrote:

Of these, I only know Oltremare. It has deals/trades, but they are direct without any possible backstabbing.


Roger that!

roujin27 wrote:

On the box it clearly states "survival is in the betrayal," and it means it. You may want to stay clear.


Now... that wasn't the answer I wanted
Okay, this is the game I want most of all (from the list above), so it really annoys me that I probably not gonna like the gameplay. Maybe I should just buy it and stick to drool over the nice layout...

DaveHollinsworth wrote:

You may want to look at Traders of Genoa, The. The entire game is negotiation, but there is no backstabbing.


Thanks for the recommendation, but to be honest I'm not so much fan of trading and negotiation games. I'm definitely gonna try to find a trade game that I like some day, but it's not a priority for me right now. I'll put The Traders of Genoa on that list
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jon David Faeth
United States
Hilliard
Ohio
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmb
Little Dragon wrote:
roujin27 wrote:
On the box it clearly states "survival is in the betrayal," and it means it. You may want to stay clear.

Now... that wasn't the answer I wanted
Okay, this is the game I want most of all (from the list above), so it really annoys me that I probably not gonna like the gameplay. Maybe I should just buy it and stick to drool over the nice layout...

But it is a great game. You could try playing it in a less backstabbity way, but that's not how I roll. We love backstabbing and deal-breaking. Beautiful production for those of us who are into the whole zombie thing, too.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrea Jørgensen
Denmark
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
All right! I'll consider that.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matthew Barratt
United Kingdom
Royal Leamington Spa
Warwickshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
In Here I Stand the rules reduce but don't eliminate the possibility for back stabbing.

In the diplomacy phase (the only time that secret negotiations are allowed) any agreement that changes the game state (eg transfer of cards, mercenaries or provinces, ending of wars, release of captives or rescinding of excommunication) will only go into effect if both players confirm the same exact arrangement. However, other agreements (eg England will play a card that benefits France if France refrains from building a navy in the Atlantic) are not enforceable.

Also, except for Perfidious Albion or for anyone playing the Machiaveli card, it is only possible to declare war at the start of the turn, before redeployment so a stab will rarely go in against an undefended border.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
CHAPEL
United States
Round Rock
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
"that's a smith and wesson, and you've had your six"
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If you're against backstabbing and negotiation then "I'm the Boss" is last game on earth you should ever play. I love it though. devil
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe L.
United States
Winchester
Virginia
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
As far as the Hellgame goes, it is essentially a multiplayer wargame where you are targeting the other players directly with combat actions and Arcana cards out of your hand (spells). Most games usually boil down to a group beatdown of the player that is closest to winning. So its very likely that you will need to work against someone you were just working with once they become the new top dog. Not sure if you consider that betrayal.

Mall of Horror is a great game, and you are really missing if you don't give it a try. With the right group of people, no one should take it personal. Hell, in my group I am the owner of the game yet I have NEVER won in about 10 plays, and I keep wanting toplay again.

I haven't played Vampire: Prince of the City, but based on my old roleplaying days, betrayal is a central theme in the World of Darkness. So I suppose if the game was done right, you'd see a good deal of backstabbing.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrea Jørgensen
Denmark
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
MBarratt wrote:
In Here I Stand the rules reduce but don't eliminate the possibility for back stabbing.

[snip]

Cool. Thanks for the explanation

MWChapel wrote:

If you're against backstabbing and negotiation then "I'm the Boss" is last game on earth you should ever play. I love it though.


*hehe*
Well, I'm not against backstabbing - I just prefer that in roleplaying/LARP but not in boardgames (where some people take it too personal). And you're probably right - I'm gonna stay away from "I'm the Boss".

Darkfate wrote:

As far as the Hellgame goes, it is essentially a multiplayer wargame where you are targeting the other players directly with combat actions and Arcana cards out of your hand (spells). Most games usually boil down to a group beatdown of the player that is closest to winning. So its very likely that you will need to work against someone you were just working with once they become the new top dog. Not sure if you consider that betrayal.


Not really. It sounds pretty fair/natural to me (at least at the end of the game). I just don't like games where you'll supposed to sweettalk/promise things to other people and then work against them the very minute after.

Darkfate wrote:

I haven't played Vampire: Prince of the City, but based on my old roleplaying days, betrayal is a central theme in the World of Darkness. So I suppose if the game was done right, you'd see a good deal of backstabbing.


Same here (though I like the WoD devil ).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alexander B.
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmb
RE: Diplomacy... my good friend has played in a group that included the DESIGNER of the game. He has won several times in that group with NO back-stabbing.

If you are playing good players, back-stabbing is rarely the best appraoch and is totally not needed or even optimal for many wins.

As for the other games... yes, some are certainly about back-stabbing... I'm not a big fan of back-stabbers either and personally prefer co-op games with maybe some elements of competition e.g. Fury of Dracula, Arkham Horror, Descent, etc.

To each her own!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stephen Tavener
United Kingdom
London
England
flag msg tools
designer
The overtext below is true.
badge
The overtext above is false.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
diamondspider wrote:
RE: Diplomacy... my good friend has played in a group that included the DESIGNER of the game. He has won several times in that group with NO back-stabbing.

If you are playing good players, back-stabbing is rarely the best appraoch and is totally not needed or even optimal for many wins.

Seconded. I used to play with the same group of people every week; honesty really pays off when the players all remember what happened last time you played.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.