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Pax Romana» Forums » Variants

Subject: Seige relief rss

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William Payne
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If you want to make the naval game a little more interesting, and possibly add realism to the siege situation then you may want to try this.

Let me say first that the game doesn't need this, and the game is not broken, this is just an Idea for an option that I have tested very little, and is just for fun.(Thats why Im posting this to the variants forum)

Immediately before any non amphibious attack on any port city, by the same army for the second or consecutive time durring the present activation, Any player may spend talents to rebuild the wall points for that city. This cost is one talent per wall point.

The player paying the talents must be able to trace LOC by sea to the city in question. Even if only the last space is by sea and all previous are on land.(diplomatic deals are allowed, including the city owner borrowing money for this use, he is not obligated to pay this back, even if he said he would.)

Supporting neutrals in this way is also allowed.

This rebuild represents supplies coming into the city from its port more than the accual rebuilding of its walls.

This rule is not in effect for the first assualt, so all the supplies in the world will not help the poor city dwellers if the army can breach the walls in one assualt(so to speak).

Starting with the second attack, a major siege is in effect and will be alot easier to conclude if the port is blockaded.(or the other players are broke )

This rule has not been tested much and may not work as intended.

Billy








 
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Michael @mgouker
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I like it! That's cool.

Maybe you should increase the price though. 1 wall point rebuilt for 2T would reflect the hardship of transporting stuff by sea (and also give the other players pause).
 
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William Payne
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Thats how I did it at first but was not usefull enough in the limited testing I did. At least thats how it seemed to me. More testing both ways would be a good idea.
 
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Michael @mgouker
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Bill, let's say I had 15 CVP and you had 14 CVP and you had a city of mine besieged, you had one more activation after mine, and you would likely assault. How much do you think it would be worth for me to build up the city walls? Quite a lot I think. Did you play that this was a minor move option?


 
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Neil Randall
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This is a very neat idea. I wish I'd thought of it during development. Among other things, it makes protecting the walls a priority.

(Which is NOT to say that it's official or anything - which it isn't - but it's very fun to play with).

I think I like Michael's increased cost idea, but I have another one to toss into the ring here (one of the reasons Pax is so enjoyable for me is that I can think if cool add-on rules constantly).

Defender spends money to rebuild the Wall points. Attacker, seeing this, uses his leader's tactical rating to try to do another assault before the walls are repaired. If he rolls equal/lower than his rating, the wall repair does not occur, but he has committed himself to an attack on the town/city on the next activation (no matter what else happens) and he also gets an extra 2 shifts against him. The idea is that the next attacks are done spontantiously and hastily.

Something like that. But even without this, I do like the idea.
 
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Michael @mgouker
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2 Shifts! That's vicious. OUCH! If that were the case and I got an activation inbetween, I would do a manpower phase and build my armies. What would you do then, eh?

devil
 
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William Payne
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mgringo wrote:
Bill, let's say I had 15 CVP and you had 14 CVP and you had a city of mine besieged, you had one more activation after mine, and you would likely assault. How much do you think it would be worth for me to build up the city walls? Quite a lot I think. Did you play that this was a minor move option?




No, I did not try this as a minor move. I dont see how that would work, you are providing relief durring another players turn.

Here is an example of how I see this rule working. I may not have been completely clear before.

Rome activates his army in rome and moves to attack Tarentum. Durring the first attack rome reduces the walls but does not take the city. Rome decides to spend two more mp's to make a second consecutive attack this activation on terrentum. Now that rome is commited to the consecutive attack(non amphibious) on a port city in one activation, a major siege is taking place and any player may send siege relief. The player immediately spends the talents as long as he can trace LOC by sea to the city and the wall points are repaired.
This doesn't really repesent rebuilding walls as much as it does getting supplies, you can only do this after another attack has been comited to, so it is unlickly that the walls will accualy stay in there repaired state. If the attacker doesnt commit to another attack then the releif rule cannot be excersised, so no free repairs can be exploited,(at least not without choosing to loose the troops instead durring the immenent attack).

Rome attacks again, and again is repelled after reducing the walls. At this point the Roman player is wishing he had moved a galley into the port to blockade it before undertaking this endevor. If he spends two more mp's to attack again it is likely that another player(greece maybe ) will send more releif.

To this you could add a roll(attacking players choice) for the attacking leader to be allowed to ignore the relief. If he rolls his tactics rating or lower, the money is still spent but the wall points are not repaired. This could represent the leaders ability to inspire his troops to overcome their hardships and get over the walls earlier than expected(supplies are still at sea), or somehow disrupt the supplies in some other way.

If the leaders roll fails, then maybe this inspiration sends his men up the ladders into a waiting meat grinder and the defenders get an extra shift.(or two as you suggested)


Niel, you confused me when you said "If he fails the roll he is commited to the attack on his next activation"
In order to use the releif rule, The attacker must have allready commited to a second or consecutive attack durring the current activation, no matter what.
I like your tactics roll Idea, very nice touch.

If one major move represents up to 6 years of millitary action, and you spend half your mp's taking a city, then what you have is a 3 year siege. Durring a long siege, if the port remains open then the city will get supplied. That is the reality.


Billy




 
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Richard H. Berg
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"This is a very neat idea. I wish I'd thought of it during development. "

I did, during design. Something like it was in (one of the) original versions, of which there were several. It was discarded for several reasons: kincreased playing time, and it did not fit into the (eventual) scale and focus of the game

This is a game with generation-level turns and a truly Big Picture, non-tactical focus. I don't think the mechanics of the suggested rule are not good . .. just that they don't fit in with what the game purports to do. (You want lots of siege detail? Get ONWARD CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS . . . a game for operastional-level siege buffs.)

RHB
 
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William Payne
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Accualy it wasnt sieges that got me thinking along these lines. I wasnt really looking for anything in particular, just an I dea I had after playing a game with 3 new players.

We got through 4 turns of the ultra historic game. All the other players were new to the game but very good gamers. They said the naval game didnt have much to it,(dispite me as greece using mine quite well against the east) and thats the comment that led me to the idea.

I tried to keep the scale in mind when forming the rule. I was trying to come up with something that fit to the scale. I guess I failed LOL.

Anyway, I was able to get a couple pictures of the game(using large map, plastic peices etc), and after they are emailed to me I will post them here.
 
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Michael @mgouker
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I'd be very inclined to try this out, Bill.

I disagree that the naval game "doesn't have much to it" though. For me it is key for every power. The galleys are essential to victory and survival. I know that you know that already though. I'm watching a very cool fight now between Greece and the East in paxr-103. East is trying to get Cyprus back. It's been a vicious naval game for a while, from Crete to Cyprus.

 
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Neil Randall
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>They said the naval game didnt have much to it

This feeling will pass after a game or two. The naval game was designed to be a big thing when it came to strategic planning and strategic movement, and it turned out to be even more than a big thing. Carthage relies on it absolutely, and Greece isn't far behind that. Rome doesn't seem to need one early on - although Carthage especially can prove that thinking wrong - but if they want to expand into the Sicilies and ultimately Africa they will.

 
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William Payne
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We only got through 4 turns so that was a factor. The guy playing Carthage didnt really use his fleet well, and it was the Roman player who made the comment. Makes more sense now doesnt it.

Rome and Carth were fighting in Hispania, Rome had elite leader, carth had good leader. Carth pre battle withdrew to a mountain space. Rome made the mistake of following(odds werent to bad but dice went against him) and suffered a Cannae style defeat.

To get revenge(Roman player doesnt like to feel defeated)he drew another am and activated an army in Rome and used it to take Syracuse away from carth. Its at that time that the Carth player realised he wasnt using his fleets properly.

 
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