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Subject: Question about Grappling Hook rss

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Jason Emme
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Grappling Hook
Program
Cost: 2
Honor and Profit
Trash: Break all but 1 subroutine on a piece of ice.

How exactly does this card interact with ice? Can the runner just make a run using grappling hook alone or must he first be able to interact with ice using an ice breaker and match the strength of the ice.

Example: can I get past Inazuma using Grappling Hook to break the subroutine. Or must I first use something like Passport and spend credits to equal it's strength first, then use grappling hook?

Hope this makes sense, I'm fairly new to Netrunner and not sure if I'm wording this correctly.

 
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Jacob Morris
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Grappling Hook allows you to just straight up break subroutines on a piece of ice without any other interaction. You'll notice it doesn't have the icebreaker subtype. Only icebreakers are limited in how they are allowed to interact with ice. Hope that helps!
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Jason Emme
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jakodrako wrote:
Grappling Hook allows you to just straight up break subroutines on a piece of ice without any other interaction. You'll notice it doesn't have the icebreaker subtype. Only icebreakers are limited in how they are allowed to interact with ice. Hope that helps!


I figured I was making it more complicated than it really was, thanks a bunch!
 
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Dave Kudzma
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Jason Emme
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locusshifter wrote:


Wowzers, that looks like an awesome combo! However, I don't think that I have that first card. I'll have to look it up and see what set it's from. Thanks!

Edit: it's from Trace Amount and I do not have it yet.
 
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Dave Kudzma
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DakotaDevil wrote:
locusshifter wrote:


Wowzers, that looks like an awesome combo! However, I don't think that I have that first card. I'll have to look it up and see what set it's from. Thanks!


E3 is from Trace Amount, the second pack in the Genesis cycle.

Also, it's worth mentioning that E3 is amazing against Bioroid ice, IE the ice you can pay clicks to break. You can click to break the first sub then 1 credit for each additional.
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Rob Jennings
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The combo mentioned above is powerful, but it does suffer from two flaws. First, it only works on ice with multiple subroutines, and second it only works once per grappling hook you install. Very good for breaking a Curtain Wall, but sad against a Paper Wall.
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Dave Kudzma
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sechen_rob wrote:
The combo mentioned above is powerful, but it does suffer from two flaws. First, it only works on ice with multiple subroutines, and second it only works once per grappling hook you install. Very good for breaking a Curtain Wall, but sad against a Paper Wall.


Well, it wouldn't be the only part of your breaker suite, now would it? You'd also like to throw in a couple clone chips and be judicious in the use of the combo. However, with this combo as part of your suite, there's not a ton to hold you back.
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Dave Kudzma
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sechen_rob wrote:
against a Paper Wall.


Actually, as it's more commonly played, I would have said Wraparound would make you VERY sad. At least with Paper Wall you break it once and it goes away.
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jakodrako wrote:
You'll notice it doesn't have the icebreaker subtype. Only icebreakers are limited in how they are allowed to interact with ice. Hope that helps!


(Off topic rules rambling)

Just noticed something curious for the first time! The rules on page 16 say

Quote:
"ICEBREAKERS are programs with the icebreaker subtype"


and then go on to refer to what "icebreakers" can and can't do. In bold, "icebreaker" would mean the subtype, but without the bold, it must be referring to the definition I quoted (programs with the icebreaker subtype).

So if you had, say, a hardware or resource with the icebreaker subtype it wouldn't be subject to the restrictions of having strength or being used during an encounter, but you could still Special Order it or pay to use it with Cyberfeeder.

Or it may just mean that they'll never print a non-program icebreaker.
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Jacob Morris
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THREADJACK

That reminds me, did we ever get any word on using Quetzal outside of an encounter?
 
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Bradley Galbraith
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DrTall wrote:
jakodrako wrote:
You'll notice it doesn't have the icebreaker subtype. Only icebreakers are limited in how they are allowed to interact with ice. Hope that helps!


(Off topic rules rambling)

Just noticed something curious for the first time! The rules on page 16 say

Quote:
"ICEBREAKERS are programs with the icebreaker subtype"


and then go on to refer to what "icebreakers" can and can't do. In bold, "icebreaker" would mean the subtype, but without the bold, it must be referring to the definition I quoted (programs with the icebreaker subtype).

So if you had, say, a hardware or resource with the icebreaker subtype it wouldn't be subject to the restrictions of having strength or being used during an encounter, but you could still Special Order it or pay to use it with Cyberfeeder.

Or it may just mean that they'll never print a non-program icebreaker.


So, hypothetically, if the design team wanted you to be able to Special Order your Grappling Hook, they could have instead made it a Hardware with the Icebreaker subtype?
 
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jakodrako wrote:
THREADJACK

That reminds me, did we ever get any word on using Quetzal outside of an encounter?


No, I didn't see a ruling. I agree we need one because as written I think you can use Quetzal/Grappling Hook to trigger Knifed/Forked/Spooned on an ICE you're not encountering.

Oversight AI and Bioroid Efficiency Research state "during a single encounter", and Knifed/Forked/Spooned don't so I would like to think they behave differently since they're worded differently. But I've almost given up on trying to interpret what Netrunner cards do based on their text. It's almost become pointless.
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Tim Meng
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DrTall wrote:

I agree we need one because as written I think you can use Quetzal/Grappling Hook to trigger Knifed/Forked/Spooned on an ICE you're not encountering.


I'm not sure how that combo would supposedly trigger a Forked or Spooned, but I can see what you mean by triggering Knifed.

When I talked with Lukas about how Quetzal is supposed to work, he basically told me that it was supposed to work like a normal paid ability during an encounter with the "target" ice. That wasn't really an official answer though, but I'd prefer to play it that way. Otherwise it'll just get ridiculous (and I don't mean in an overpowered sort of way).
 
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trekkienz wrote:
DrTall wrote:

I agree we need one because as written I think you can use Quetzal/Grappling Hook to trigger Knifed/Forked/Spooned on an ICE you're not encountering.


I'm not sure how that combo would supposedly trigger a Forked or Spooned


Grappling Hook + e3 will trigger Forked/Spooned. I didn't mention e3 because I don't think we need a ruling on it, just Quetzal/Grappling Hook.
 
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Andrew Keddie
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If this gets any traction, I predict a rulebook errata or FAQ update which explicitly states that only subroutines on ice currently being encountered can be broken.
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CommissarFeesh wrote:
If this gets any traction, I predict a rulebook errata or FAQ update which explicitly states that only subroutines on ice currently being encountered can be broken.


Yes, I think that would be the best outcome.
 
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Jason Emme
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I come back and wow...I have no idea what you guys are talking about, but I'm learning!
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Raf Cordero
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Any update on cutlery being used on ICE in a different server or further down the row? Would love to know the answer to this. I can't think of anything in the RAW that would prevent it; reminds me of pumping Corroder before you encounter a Tollbooth for example.
 
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Jacob Morris
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captainraffi wrote:
Any update on cutlery being used on ICE in a different server or further down the row? Would love to know the answer to this. I can't think of anything in the RAW that would prevent it; reminds me of pumping Corroder before you encounter a Tollbooth for example.


What are you trying to figure out?
 
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Raf Cordero
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I guess a couple separate issues:

Imagine Archer is the innermost ICE and Architect is the outermost ICE. Can I initiate a run with Cutlery on this server, and use Grappling Hook + E3 to kill the Archer, and then encounter Architect and break it with my Mimic.

Can I do the same thing, but initiate the run on Server A and Cutlery an ICE on Server B?

Finally, can I do both of the above with Quetzal and/or can I Quetzal an Oversight AI'd ICE outside of a run?
 
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Ken Wong
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captainraffi wrote:
I guess a couple separate issues:

Imagine Archer is the innermost ICE and Architect is the outermost ICE. Can I initiate a run with Cutlery on this server, and use Grappling Hook + E3 to kill the Archer, and then encounter Architect and break it with my Mimic.

Can I do the same thing, but initiate the run on Server A and Cutlery an ICE on Server B?

Finally, can I do both of the above with Quetzal and/or can I Quetzal an Oversight AI'd ICE outside of a run?


I'm pretty sure every reasonable person that plays this game knows that this game was designed with the intention that subroutines only be broken during an encounter. So in which case, the answer to your question would be.

1. No
2. No
3. No
 
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Pandonetho wrote:
I'm pretty sure every reasonable person that plays this game knows that this game was designed with the intention that subroutines only be broken during an encounter.


I'm sure that when designed, icebreakers weren't worded deliberately so that their strength could be increased outside encounter. Yet you can do that when approaching a 'Tollbooth'. I would bet it's an accidental interaction though, not a design goal.
 
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Ken Wong
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popeye09 wrote:
Pandonetho wrote:
I'm pretty sure every reasonable person that plays this game knows that this game was designed with the intention that subroutines only be broken during an encounter.


I'm sure that when designed, icebreakers weren't worded deliberately so that their strength could be increased outside encounter. Yet you can do that when approaching a 'Tollbooth'. I would bet it's an accidental interaction though, not a design goal.


Straight from the FAQ:

Quote:
Can I spend credits to boost the strength of an icebreaker, or
break a subroutine on a piece of ice, if I am about to encounter
a Tollbooth during step 2.3 of a run?
You cannot break subroutines outside of an encounter with a
piece of ice, but you can boost the strength of an icebreaker.


That answers the question.
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Raf Cordero
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popeye09 wrote:
Pandonetho wrote:
I'm pretty sure every reasonable person that plays this game knows that this game was designed with the intention that subroutines only be broken during an encounter.


I'm sure that when designed, icebreakers weren't worded deliberately so that their strength could be increased outside encounter. Yet you can do that when approaching a 'Tollbooth'. I would bet it's an accidental interaction though, not a design goal.


This pretty much exactly why I'm asking. So I hadn't realized that OAI specifies an encounter, so I'm on board with that one. However, I don't see anything in the RAW that would say you can't Cutlery an ICE you aren't currently encountering. I understand the design intent/reasonableness, but I am curious about the rules around it.
 
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