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Subject: Marauder and Defender of the Realm Combo Question rss

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Kevin Berent
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We played the other night and came across this situation:

- another player placed 1 army on my province (I only had a town counter)
- on my next turn I played the Marauder card to remove the other player's army token
- the Defender of the Realm card was in play with points still on it.

I felt I should have received a point from the Defender of the Realm card, but the rest of the group said 'no' since I didn't use an "End a war" action.

Thoughts? Thanks!

 
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Garry Rice
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I would tend to agree with you...the Defender of the Realm doesn't say anything about having to take the End a War action - just that you have to successfully defend yourself, which I would say you ably did. Your opponent should have moved two armies in if he wanted to prevent this - after all, he should know you have the card (although not necessarily that it's in your hand ).
 
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David Smith
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I'd take the opposing view. The Defender should get points for defending, which suggests to me, a war should be involved somewhere along the line. The marauder takes armies away without any actual fighting going on.
Thematically, the Defender is all about protecting his people with a display of arms. If a bunch of nomadic barbarians ambush the enemy in their camp, it hardly boosts the reputation of the regular army.
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Garry Rice
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Azure_Meeple wrote:
I'd take the opposing view. The Defender should get points for defending, which suggests to me, a war should be involved somewhere along the line. The marauder takes armies away without any actual fighting going on.
Thematically, the Defender is all about protecting his people with a display of arms. If a bunch of nomadic barbarians ambush the enemy in their camp, it hardly boosts the reputation of the regular army.


Who says it was a bunch of nomadic barbarians? Cavalry units have served as "marauders" as far back as you care to look in history, and the best defense is often a good offense...whistle

To each their own...unless Martin makes an official ruling here, we'll never know what was intended.
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David Smith
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True.

And may I compliment you on your fine choice of avatar.
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Kevin Berent
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I also looked at it this way --- if I did nothing, I was going to lose the province. Seems to me I 'defended' it.

The rules also specifically mention that the Diplomat card CANNOT get a Defender of the Realm point. So why not specify it for the Marauder?

BTW - The Marauder card happened to be sitting in my Reserve, but I doubt he could see/tell from where he was sitting opposite me.
 
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Garry Rice
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Azure_Meeple wrote:
True.

And may I compliment you on your fine choice of avatar.


Allow me to return the compliment
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Mc Jarvis
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Berentski wrote:
I also looked at it this way --- if I did nothing, I was going to lose the province. Seems to me I 'defended' it.

The rules also specifically mention that the Diplomat card CANNOT get a Defender of the Realm point. So why not specify it for the Marauder?


Because the Defender of the Realm card explicitly says the defender "effectively wins the war".

I think official word from Martin would be good for this one. Even if Marauders is not involved: If I invade your province, you bulk up on armies, and then I withdraw troops, did you successfully defend your province?

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Ove Ahlman
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There are two questions here which needs to be answered.

1. Does the war end when there are no enemy forces left in a province?
The rules seem to imply that wars are only ended by taking the "end war" action, or by ending the game. Hence you could claim that the war is still going on in this proince, the attacker should be able to put forces in there without playing a province card and hence no defender of the realm VPs should be claimed.

2. If the war ends, then does it simply cancel or is it won by the defender?


I would claim that you can't win a war without someone taking the "end war" action, hence either the war is still going on, or it is canceled. But I also agree with many others in this thread that the rules aren't clear enough on what a "successful defense" is and that we would need an official ruling.
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Chris Orszak
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McJarvis wrote:
I think official word from Martin would be good for this one. Even if Marauders is not involved: If I invade your province, you bulk up on armies, and then I withdraw troops, did you successfully defend your province?


Just a heads up that based on the "Remove armies" rule on page 11, you cannot withdraw troops from a contest where there is a war. We discovered this half way into the game when trying to figure out how pulling them out impacted the Defender of the Realm VP. Turns out it doesn't because you can't.
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Todd M
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In this thread, Martin said, in regard to Defender of the Realm:

Quote:
You receive the VP reward whenever you successfully defence against an attack, which may be when you actively declare the war won during your turn or when the attacker declares he has lost, which means you are not the active player.
(emphasis added)

Now granted, he is answering in regards to whether you have to be the active player to successfully defend and get the award. So he may not have had marauders in mind. But he lays out two scenarios for when you can successfully defend against an attack:

(1) when you actively declare the war won during your turn; or
(2) when the attacker declares he has lost.

Since Marauders does not create either of these conditions, I would say that based on existing RAW and Martin's current responses, it does not.
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David Espada
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Yesterday we found same problem, with added noise of a ship supporting the attack.

In my view, Marauders seems not a "war ender" card in concept, contrary to Diplomat. So, until an official (I hope) answer to this, I think that Marauders doesn't end a war although there are no armies after applying its effect. Attacker can react putting more armies as if there was armies yet.

Another possible use is that Marauders can't remove last army in a conflict. Perhaps more elegant.
 
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