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BattleCON: Fate of Indines» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Baenvier's Spellforge style rss

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David Springer
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Hey all,

I wanted to crowdsource some input to help me understand Baenvier's Spellforge style. Here are its stats:

Range: +0
Power: +0
Priority: +2
On Hit: The opponent's style is returned to their hand.

In my very limited experience with Baenvier, I have yet to see or imagine a situation where it would be more valuable to negate my opponent's style on this one beat than it would be to give them an extra style for the next two beats. I'm certain, however, that there are situations where that would be useful (otherwise, obviously, it wouldn't have made it in, right?). I'm just struggling to think one up.

Can anyone imagine a situation where that would be useful or valuable? Bonus points if you can find an invaluable situation?
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Thiago Colas
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dspringer9952 wrote:
Can anyone imagine a situation where that would be useful or valuable? Bonus points if you can find an invaluable situation?


Several, in fact. When we play a character pair, we account for both Base and Style. Removing the Style from a character will almost always prevent him from connecting the way they wanted to. Now, for the absolutely devastating examples: Return Arec's Phantom or Mirrored Styles, breaking his game for the beat. Return one of Kaitlyn's styles to her hand as you Dash, preventing her from having enough range to hit you. Remove clockwork from Cadenza's shot, allowing you to damage him and breaking his strongest Attack Pair.

And don't forget that some attack pairs are specially strong with specific cards together. Returning one to the hand while the other cycles means the whole attack pair is broken.
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David Springer
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Dope sauce, Baenvier was still my favorite Fate character even when I thought one of his styles was unusable.

dinobottm2 wrote:
Return one of Kaitlyn's styles to her hand as you Dash, preventing her from having enough range to hit you.


Can you elaborate on the Kaitlyn example, though? Would Spellforge still trigger if you paired it with a Dash? I thought its effect was an On Hit trigger; at least that's what it is in the PnP files.
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Thiago Colas
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dspringer9952 wrote:
Dope sauce, Baenvier was still my favorite Fate character even when I thought one of his styles was unusable.

dinobottm2 wrote:
Return one of Kaitlyn's styles to her hand as you Dash, preventing her from having enough range to hit you.


Can you elaborate on the Kaitlyn example, though? Would Spellforge still trigger if you paired it with a Dash? I thought its effect was an On Hit trigger; at least that's what it is in the PnP files.


Yes, my bad... It wouldn't. Still, returning Kaitlyn's styles to her hand breaks her game, since she relies on them to hit most of the times. Playing it with a shot would allow Ban to hit her and not be hit back, unless she also played a shot.
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Thiago Colas
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The key element is, when we play an attack pair, we account for both Base and Style together. And, as a regular Sagas player who heavily relies on Negation, i can say that removing the Style from an attack pair can completely ruin the opponent's plans.
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Ed Hughes
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It's also really good against counterattackers/brawlers when paired with a drive to kill their soak/stun guard.
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Kyle Currie
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I actually have a much more general question about Baenvier that this thread reminded me of.

His UA says that his Spell Eater tokens cause "all played styles to return to players' hands." Does that include the player controlling Baenvier? Or only opponents?

If it includes Baenvier, how should it be used? I don't really see the benefit of an ante that reduces both players to a standard base card. Or did I read the UA wrong?
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Thiago Colas
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Elyklord wrote:
I actually have a much more general question about Baenvier that this thread reminded me of.

His UA says that his Spell Eater tokens cause "all played styles to return to players' hands." Does that include the player controlling Baenvier? Or only opponents?

If it includes Baenvier, how should it be used? I don't really see the benefit of an ante that reduces both players to a standard base card. Or did I read the UA wrong?


It does include him, and the main utility is that you planned that. Anteing Ban's tokens is a planed action, not a reaction like some other characters. When you do, you know it will be Base versus Base.
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Aaron White
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That is kind of cool for range 1, because then the base versus base diagram is very literal. If your opponent does not have drive or shot, then burst is a sure fire win, etc etc.
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Brad Talton
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Also, Baenvier's Spire is a running candidate for the strongest base in BattleCON, right up there with Knives. Spire beats just about everything else in it's range category once styles are removed.
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Brad Rosenquist
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I just played Baenvier in the tournament, and both Spellforge and the Spelleater tokens were integral in my winning that match.

2 out of 3 of my Spelleaters went with Burst. The 1st time, I backed out of reach of a Grasp that would have caught me, paired with my opponent's style (I'm assuming anyway-I didn't get to see the Style played). But with a Burst vs Grasp, I retreated, he missed, and I hit him for 3. The 2nd Burst was used in a situation where I was at the edge of the board and there was 1 space in between my opponent and I. I used Burst again, which would normally not be ideal there, due to the fact that I couldn't retreat and it has low priority. But that's the thing: it was unexpected. He played a Range 1 attack with a style (again, logically assuming) that could reach me and had higher priority. But again, he missed, and I hit him for 3.

My other spelleater I used with a Dash, anticipating a Dash from him and wanting to Clash it (I would have been able to guarantee a hit after the Clash with just a base). He didn't Dash, so it was mostly a waste, but of course I still dodged a hit.

As for Spellforge, I didn't actually use it to my advantage in the game. Both times I used it I lost that beat. BUT, it was a threat just being in my hand. It gives you +2 Priority, and the opponent will anticipate it countering a strong style that doesn't out-prioritize it. If it hits, BOOM, they lose their style, and you may get a free hit that they can't answer. Yeah, they get an extra Style next turn, but that's not necessarily worth the trade off of completely losing a beat to a full attack.
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