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Subject: betting in round 5 rss

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Gerline Bezemer
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Betting in round 5 has a value of 0. Then.... what's the use of it??
Thank you for any comments!

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Liam Kelley
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the only reason i can see for it to be there is to make the rules a bit more streamlined. You can place a bet on your turn. Period. Now, what that bet is worth depends on when you play it. When there are only 4 creatures left, its worth anything. you can spot the 3 strongest. So making the value = 0 makes it so the rules dont have an EXCEPTION: no bets in the 5th round clause written in there.
 
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Matthew Wills
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Gerline wrote:
Betting in round 5 has a value of 0. Then.... what's the use of it??
Thank you for any comments!



Read through all the creature cards. I remember that at least one lets you place bids in previous rows.

By saying 'no bidding in Round 5' you would weaken that creature.
 
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Seth Widoff
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I don't own a copy of the game, but as I recall if you have the majority of visible bets on a creature, you become its backer and can invoke the creature's special power. Betting in the fifth round would allow you to do this. Of course, I've never played a game that made it to the fifth round.
 
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james napoli
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only played it once but having the ability to back a creature would likely b the reason.
 
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Matthew Wills
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grumblebee wrote:
I don't own a copy of the game, but as I recall if you have the majority of visible bets on a creature, you become its backer and can invoke the creature's special power. Betting in the fifth round would allow you to do this. Of course, I've never played a game that made it to the fifth round.


Round 5 bet won't help for backing, since it counts as value 0 (its not the count of visible bets - its the total value of them).

On a side note, make sure you play with FFG's variant end game rules (available from their website). They are much better than the standard end game rules. With the variant end game rules the game lasts a little longer. (Note that this has nothing to do with the original question).
 
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Marshall
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Basically, there is no point in betting in round 5. You only get 5 bets, and because of the diminishing returns, you will never even have any bet tokens by round 5 anyway.

Here is a 4 player example:
Round 1: Each player makes a hidden bet (worth 5) and then each player makes a non-hidden bet (worth 4), but there are 8 monsters and typically each player will take 2-3 turns before the first round is over, so usually at least 1 or 2 players will place a third bet before the round ends. This leaves 2-3 players with 3 remaining bet tokens, and 1 or 2 players with only 2.

Round 2: At the end of round 1, 1 monster was eliminated, so only 7 remain to place bets on. During this round, usually each player will place 1 bet (worth 3) and sometimes one or two players will place a second bet. So by the end of round 2, in a 4 player game, usually most players will only have 1 or 2 tokens remaining.

Round 3: Another monster is slain, so only 6 remain and bets are now only worth 2, less than half of a hidden bet, and exactly half of the value of your other first round bets. During this round, again everybody usually places at least one bet and might even place a second, just to get rid of their tokens before round 4 where they are only worth 1. Usually no more than 2 people have 1 token each at the end of this round.

Round 4: The players that still have tokens offload them here, the upside is that since few players still have tokens, they can pick monsters that are almost guarenteed (based on previous bets) not to die.

Round 5: Nobody has tokens to bet anyway.

Realize that this means that in a 2 player game, even by the end of round 2, it's possible that a player be out of bets because they will have usually played 1 hidden and 2 or 3 other bets in the first round, and it's not that strange that they will make their other 2-3 bets in round 2 where bets are worth the same as a bet in round 3 and 4 combined. Even in a 5 player game, not a single player will have any bets remaining after round 4.

So though that is probably the long-winded version, that is why round 5 bets are worthless.
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Matthew Wills
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marshalls_acct wrote:
So though that is probably the long-winded version, that is why round 5 bets are worthless.


Check out the Colossus and Daimon, particularly the latter. http://files.boardgamegeek.com/viewfile.php3?fileid=7312

With the Daimon, bets in round 5 become reasonable (especially with fewer players). This becomes even more powerful if one backs both the Colossus AND the Daimon.
 
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Luis Paulino Mora Lizano
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mjwills wrote:
grumblebee wrote:
I don't own a copy of the game, but as I recall if you have the majority of visible bets on a creature, you become its backer and can invoke the creature's special power. Betting in the fifth round would allow you to do this. Of course, I've never played a game that made it to the fifth round.


Round 5 bet won't help for backing, since it counts as value 0 (its not the count of visible bets - its the total value of them).

On a side note, make sure you play with FFG's variant end game rules (available from their website). They are much better than the standard end game rules. With the variant end game rules the game lasts a little longer. (Note that this has nothing to do with the original question).


To be the backer of a creature you have to fulfill two conditions:

1. You have to bet on that creature (one or several times).

2. You have to be the one with the highest total value of visible bets.

So, if no one has played a bet on a creature and you bet on it in the last round (which is possible, cause the rules don't say the contrary), you'd have the highest bet (with 0 value) and you'd become its backer. Having a bet with 0 value is different than having no bets on a creature for this matter, from my point of view.

This case probably comes out one in a million times (it has never happened to me), but I think I'd handle it this way.
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Gillum the Stoor
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mjwills wrote:
marshalls_acct wrote:
So though that is probably the long-winded version, that is why round 5 bets are worthless.

Check out the Colossus and Daimon, particularly the latter. colossalarenarules.pdf

With the Daimon, bets in round 5 become reasonable (especially with fewer players). This becomes even more powerful if one backs both the Colossus AND the Daimon.

Bets placed using Daimon may be made in round 5, but they are not considered round-5 bets with regard to the amount of gold that they produce.
 
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