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Aton» Forums » Variants

Subject: Balancing the Victory Conditions rss

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Armand
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This might be a case of groupthink, but by far the least common victory condition is 'all yellow' or 'all green'.

I think the easy fix is just to make it 'all yellow or all green within three temples, instead of all four'.

I love the tension when both players are pursuing different conditions, but it always seems to be 'fill one temple' vs. 'points'. It would be great to have the threat of all three in play.
 
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Larry Levy
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I think a victory condition that rarely occurs, but which is there to provide something else to worry about than the more common victory conditions, is fine. I find the "tension" of the All Yellow/Green condition is just as great, even though it never seems to happen. Basically, I don't feel that requiring all the victory conditions to happen about the same amount is a worthwhile design goal.
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Armand
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Larry Levy wrote:
I find the "tension" of the All Yellow/Green condition is just as great, even though it never seems to happen.


Why are you tense about something that never seems to happen? Are you a worrier?

If you think I'm attacking the game, I'm not. I rate it a 10, and I recommend it all the time.

Can you improve on a ten?

Yes, you can improve on anything. You just have to ignore the knee jerk 'love it or leave it' mentality of others.

I'll let you know how it goes. If it's good you can explain to me why it actually wasn't, and if it's bad you can tell me you told me so.
 
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Jens www.spielefreun.de
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Armand
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I have two things to say.

1. Every single variant thread on BGG has at least one, "There's no need for this variant," response. This annoys me. It annoyed me when I posted the above response, and it annoys me still.

Do you go to a soccer game and complain that they're kicking a ball around?

It's a variant forum. It's going to have variants. If you don't like variants, maybe you shouldn't read them.

(Stepping down from soapbox...)

2. Playing with a reduced requirement for y/g makes this wonderful game even better.

Games with standard rules: Roughly 30
Wins by all green or all yellow: 0

Games with 3 yellow/green temples: 8
Wins by all green or all yellow: 8

Games with 3+2 variant (3 temples plus at least two in the fourth): 12
Wins by all green or all yellow: 2


In every match with the 3+2 variant the threat of a y/g victory was real and had to be blocked. It was not just a thing that might happen one day when one player is half-asleep. It had a real impact on the decisions of both players. The game was therefore more exciting and better as a result of it.



I respectfully invite you, fans of Aton like myself, to try the variant before you comment on it further.

Happy gaming!
 
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Justus
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I haven't tried it and I don't plan on it just because I haven't milked the original game dry yet. Maybe if I get bored with the original I will try it, after all I like variants when its appropriate.

But as a counterpoint, from this evening. I just threatened a victory with all green which opened me up for a fill-all temple 2 victory the next turn.
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David B
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doctoryes0 wrote:
I have two things to say.

1. Every single variant thread on BGG has at least one, "There's no need for this variant," response. This annoys me. It annoyed me when I posted the above response, and it annoys me still.

Do you go to a soccer game and complain that they're kicking a ball around?

It's a variant forum. It's going to have variants. If you don't like variants, maybe you shouldn't read them.

(Stepping down from soapbox...)

2. Playing with a reduced requirement for y/g makes this wonderful game even better.

Games with standard rules: Roughly 30
Wins by all green or all yellow: 0

Games with 3 yellow/green temples: 8
Wins by all green or all yellow: 8

Games with 3+2 variant (3 temples plus at least two in the fourth): 12
Wins by all green or all yellow: 2


In every match with the 3+2 variant the threat of a y/g victory was real and had to be blocked. It was not just a thing that might happen one day when one player is half-asleep. It had a real impact on the decisions of both players. The game was therefore more exciting and better as a result of it.



I respectfully invite you, fans of Aton like myself, to try the variant before you comment on it further.

Happy gaming!



Well, I have one thing to say:

When you propose something in ANY forum, you invite users to respectfully engage in discussion, whether it be for OR against your post. This is exactly what happened. If this is something that bothers you, then don't post. Your reaction was uncalled for.
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Danny Perello
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doctoryes0 wrote:
This might be a case of groupthink, but by far the least common victory condition is 'all yellow' or 'all green'.

I would guess it is a result of groupthink. I've not only seen this victory, I've pulled it off, and it wasn't that hard to be honest. I'm actually very impressed with the balance in this game with all victory conditions being viable.

Great game.
 
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Armand
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Ugh.

Just played Aton with my 3+2 variant and recalled posting about it in this thread. Re-read it and... ugh.

I must have been having a pretty bad day. Apologies for the attitude, y'all.
 
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