chaon choan
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meeple Hello BGG community,

I'm a casual who love big strategic game, with gestion and development. But all my gaming partner don't share this opinion ^^ especially my girlfriend.

So I converted her to boardgame with mr jack pocket, takenoko and splendor.


I looking for a deeper game but still easy to understand and play, to avoid overwhelming her and my friend.
With my group we have played agricola, puerto rico... and we are looking for a similar game but with more interaction, a better theme, and faster to play more game and have more metagame ^^ .

I ruled out a lot of game which I would like to play: bruxelles 1893, Russian railroad, archipelago, hyperborea, terra mystica, historia...
But they seems too heavy to understand and play.

So in short my criteria are :
- 2 to 5+ players > play with my girlfriend and with my gaming group who are more gamer like me.
- Easy to grasp
- Under the 2h mark at 4


Do you have other game than this 4 to purpose ? And which one should I rather buy ?
I have to tell you than I have a crush on keyflower and lancaster !
but lancaster seems not 2 players friendly


Thanks for you advices
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Michael Barbarick
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Of those you mentioned, the only one I have played is Manhattan Project. I think it is a great game. Probably middle of the road to slightly lighter as far as worker placement games go. It is a great game and will play in less than 2 hours with 4. Probably closer to 1 hour to 1.5 hours. It has a nice twist in that you have three different types of workers that are needed for different things.

Other games you might want to consider are Stone Age and Lords of Waterdeep. Stone Age is a classic that is easy to play up but only plays 4, but with 4 takes about 90 mins. I am sure many people will suggest Lords of Waterdeep as it fits your criteria as well. It plays 5 and in less than 2 hours, though theme may be a turnoff for some.

One other suggestion that I have been having a lot of fun with is Viticulture. Viticulture plays up to 6 and I would say it takes about 1/2 an hour a player, less with repeated play.
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David Monteforte
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You are jumping right into this head first lol.

First let me point out you have been playing a lot of really good gateway games, and aside from splendor, extremely thematic ones.

If you want to introduce to worker placement games as it seems you do, sprium wont have that 2 player grasp it should i can almost assure that. Keyflower is kind of a mean game, the question is will you be mean to each other? Agricola could be good, it depends, it's simple enough to teach and really deep, but again you'd have to run "building a farm" by your girlfriend.

Personally i would recommend you look into Stone Age for a midweight game that still has some theme, and enough depth to last and see if you would enjoy something deeper like Agricola or Caverna.

always run the theme by the person you want to play with.

My girlfriends first games she REALLY enjoyed, were Tsuro and Machi Koro. now she can play games like Suburbia and Dungeon Petz
 
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Sam Hillier
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Of your list I've only played Keyflower, but it is a fantastic game. It looks intimidating, but it is super simple. You bid for tiles and/or you use them. What makes it really interesting/interactive is the mechanism for bidding/using. All the meeples are colour-coded, and if someone uses one colour on a hex, you can't use another. This leads to some very strategic bidding options. Plus, you can use other players' hexes, which introduces its own aspects of risk/reward.

For a worker placement game, it's surprisingly interactive. It's great for anywhere between 2 and 6 players, so extremely flexible. It also has a variable setup (you don't use all the hexes) so no two games are the same.
 
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chris thatcher
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Lancaster is great but needs min of 4 players to really shine
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Eric Matthews
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I'd +1 the lords of waterdeep suggestion; there's a reason it's so popular. The basic game is very easy to learn and while it has a nice theme for those who like it, the theme doesn't overwhelm players who arn't into fantasy or D&D. The best part is that if your group likes it, when you are all ready the expansion really does deepen the game in small steps.


I also think Spyrium is a good choice, especially since it's size and underrated ness means it's pretty cheap to pick up. it's got a small box but has a lot of intersting decisions in it. It is relatively short and very solidly midweight. One issue though is that the steampunk theme is ironically a turn off for some people while not actually very strong in the game. That being said the worker placement mechanics are simple and yet pretty unusual, with a fun internal economic system. The most popular spots become the most expensive, but also trigger the mechanism for income.


E
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Dave K
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Keyflower is a great game and it plays 2-4 extremely well (and is still good with 5 or 6, but 2-4 is more ideal). I don't think it's a good game to introduce to someone who isn't used to resource management or bidding games, as it might be too complex. It does have lots of interaction and metagame, however. Could you perhaps try it with her at a gaming cafe or something?

Lancaster is also excellent but you are correct that it is not as good with 2.

Spyrium is very mean sometimes. You need to be comfortable with aggressive resource denial for it to be fun.

Have you considered Caverna: The Cave Farmers? I personally prefer Agricola, but I think Caverna is easier for new players because getting food is easier and being blocked is easier to work around.

Another game that might be worth looking at is Fresco. It is deeper than Mr Jack Pocket, Takenoko, and Splendor, but is still relatively easy to play and you can add in the expansions to give it more depth. My wife enjoys it quite a bit and she is not a heavy gamer, but my gaming group enjoys it as well.
 
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Gene Warren
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Spyrium can be pretty confrontational, but it's also way, way cheaper (& physically smaller too ) than those other titles, so I'd give it a shot. Really what it comes down to for how to proceed in bringing others around is how much conflict/thwarting do they want?
 
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Ian Kissell
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As mentioned before, a deciding factor will be how much conflict you want in a game. Manhattan Project can have a lot. Lancaster can have some, but it is not as pronounced with less players. Really, Lancaster will be as confrontation as your group wants it to be. Spyrium can be mean, but not as much with 2 players.

I love Lancaster, but I have not played it with 2. It is my Worker placement of choice.

I think Spyrium was more of a fad and is dying. I'm not a huge fan.
 
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Dan
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+1 to Stone Age. Works well with 2, 3, or 4 players.
 
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Adam Kazimierczak
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Your first instinct was correct: Keyflower!!!

Light/midweight, scales well with all player counts, easy to learn with enough depth to keep you coming back....I could go on, but you're wasting time, Go buy it already! meeple
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I like keyflower and all but I'm wondering if Dungeon Petz might be doable. It's got a much better theme than most 'heavier' games and yet quite simple to understand.
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chaon choan
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Hello,
thanks all for your advice

Yes i'm looking for a game with some interaction, conflicts.
I didn't put stone age in my list because it's 4 max, and like caverna, it's a game you can play alone, on your side, and didn't care about your opponent. That was my feeling when I play caverna.
So that why I don't want a "pure" gestion game.

Spyrium could correspond but the theme so cold and abstract won't immerse the novice in the game...

Dungeon petz, I liked it a lot but seems to long to play...

Lord of waterdeep, this game didn't really catch my attention. D&D is not my deal, but I need to read more review, it can correspond nicely !

Viticulture could be really nice too. And my girlfriend loves wine

Thanks for the precision on the game I shortlisted.
Keyflower and MP are on top now. I need to try them out !

Someone told me than keyflower was really hard to play, with a lot of decision every turn. And even told me than terra mystica could be a better choice. But TM seems way harder and technical than keyflower oO !
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David Monteforte
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choan wrote:
Hello,
thanks all for your advice

Yes i'm looking for a game with some interaction, conflicts.
I didn't put stone age in my list because it's 4 max, and like caverna, it's a game you can play alone, on your side, and didn't care about your opponent. That was my feeling when I play caverna.
So that why I don't want a "pure" gestion game.

Spyrium could correspond but the theme so cold and abstract won't immerse the novice in the game...

Dungeon petz, I liked it a lot but seems to long to play...

Lord of waterdeep, this game didn't really catch my attention. D&D is not my deal, but I need to read more review, it can correspond nicely !

Viticulture could be really nice too. And my girlfriend loves wine

Thanks for the precision on the game I shortlisted.
Keyflower and MP are on top now. I need to try them out !

Someone told me than keyflower was really hard to play, with a lot of decision every turn. And even told me than terra mystica could be a better choice. But TM seems way harder and technical than keyflower oO !


Keyflower is easy to pick up, hard to learn the strategy of it. And worst case scenario, you may need to look at the forums for some rule hiccups in ways a thing or two interact (nothing that will take very long to figure out, so long as you don't mind looking... since the rulebook is "blah")

Dungeon petz takes about 90 minutes when you're learning, 45 minutes if everyone knows what they're doing. However good luck finding it, as it is rare and OOP. and if you can find it, it's probably expensive (I cherish my copy)

Haven't played Viticulture, can't help you there.

Good luck learning Terra Mystica, that game has way too much going on for me... and i like to consider myself a pretty avid gamer TM is about as heavy as a board game gets. If you want a DEEP strategic heavy game, yeah this is pretty much king.

Hope this helps you
 
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chaon choan
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Jeee viticulture seems awsome ! meeple
I'm watching gameplay runthrough on youtube and it seems really deep, strategic and immersive. Maybe not much interaction...
But i can't find it in my country soblue

I will try keyflower tomorrow at my store.
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tim thorson
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On your list I've only played hyperborea and terra mystica.

Maybe try agricola/caverna, Stone Age or lords of waterdeep. Agricola and terra Mystica are some of my favorites games. Terra mystica looks like a lot but I didn't find too much more complex than suburbia. But I think caverna or lords of waterdeep would be good next step.
 
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Jason Teague
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We play primarily 2p, but we like really tough, complex, brain-burners. That being said, we do have some light-medium games we enjoy quite a bit that are quite good--even if not best--with 2p and so keep hitting the table over and over.

Tokaido
Yedo
Castles of Burgundy
Istanbul
Smallworld
Fleet and Fleet: Arctic Bounty (not a board game, but still...a lot of fun)
Coal Baron (production quality issues, but still a fun and relatively simple worker-placement game)
City of Iron (medium-weight but more heavily-themed civ-buiilder than Through the Ages or Nations)
 
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Krimson62 wrote:
choan wrote:
Hello,
thanks all for your advice

Yes i'm looking for a game with some interaction, conflicts.
I didn't put stone age in my list because it's 4 max, and like caverna, it's a game you can play alone, on your side, and didn't care about your opponent. That was my feeling when I play caverna.
So that why I don't want a "pure" gestion game.

Spyrium could correspond but the theme so cold and abstract won't immerse the novice in the game...

Dungeon petz, I liked it a lot but seems to long to play...

Lord of waterdeep, this game didn't really catch my attention. D&D is not my deal, but I need to read more review, it can correspond nicely !

Viticulture could be really nice too. And my girlfriend loves wine

Thanks for the precision on the game I shortlisted.
Keyflower and MP are on top now. I need to try them out !

Someone told me than keyflower was really hard to play, with a lot of decision every turn. And even told me than terra mystica could be a better choice. But TM seems way harder and technical than keyflower oO !


Keyflower is easy to pick up, hard to learn the strategy of it. And worst case scenario, you may need to look at the forums for some rule hiccups in ways a thing or two interact (nothing that will take very long to figure out, so long as you don't mind looking... since the rulebook is "blah")

Dungeon petz takes about 90 minutes when you're learning, 45 minutes if everyone knows what they're doing. However good luck finding it, as it is rare and OOP. and if you can find it, it's probably expensive (I cherish my copy)

Haven't played Viticulture, can't help you there.

Good luck learning Terra Mystica, that game has way too much going on for me... and i like to consider myself a pretty avid gamer TM is about as heavy as a board game gets. If you want a DEEP strategic heavy game, yeah this is pretty much king.

Hope this helps you


Dungeon petz isn't even remotely oop in Europe. He could get it for about 35 euros delivered in French.
 
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David Monteforte
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scott3387 wrote:


Dungeon petz isn't even remotely oop in Europe. He could get it for about 35 euros delivered in French.


That makes me happy, it's a game that should be enjoyed everywhere, it's that damn good shame that it's impossible to find now here in the US

 
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