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Subject: [Deck]/Theory Crafting Quetz is Hungry rss

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Dave Chandler
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So I have this idea Cutlery is great! But throwing them all in a deck is tough/expensive. Kit means you only need one, but the influence... oh the influence!

So what about the next best thing? Quetzal only needs 2. The foundation of the deck is "What happens if I use Quetzal to get through barriers, and eater + cutlery to kill everything else"

From there it was all about maximizing eater. Keyhole comes to mind immediately. As does Wanton Destruction. Now I've got a "Throw everything in archives and pick up the agendas from there" thing going so it makes sense to bring in the Hades shard. And while we're throwing things in the trash, a singularity or two makes sense for a surprise "Gotcha" when the corp realizes I can't score from the servers.

Now I've got a lot of events... cutlery ain't free... which screams card draw and Prepaid voicepad.... which implies event based economy.

That was the train of thought that lead to this list. It's not good. Not yet. Deckspace is just too tight to pull off everything I'm working with here. For one, I'm missing card draw (inject only) and the Levy to recur it all. I'm curious as to your thoughts on how to tighten this up.

Hungry Quetz (45 cards)

Quetzal: Free Spirit

Event (24)
2 Dirty Laundry
3 Forked
3 Inject
2 Lucky Find
2 Singularity
2 Special Order
3 Spooned
2 Steelskin
3 Sure Gamble
2 Wanton Destruction

Hardware (7)
3 Clone Chip
2 Grimoire
2 Prepaid VoicePAD

Resource (4)
1 Hades Shard
3 Same Old Thing

Icebreaker (3)
1 Corroder
2 Eater

Program (7)
2 Datasucker
3 Keyhole
2 Parasite
 
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Michael Redston
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Didn't some mathy people found out that PPVP is almost never worth it outside Kate?
 
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kroen wrote:
Didn't some mathy people found out that PPVP is almost never worth it outside Kate?

Things change?
 
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Raf Cordero
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I'm tinkering with a similar deck with Quetzal, but I'm starting with 2x of each cutlery. Obviously barriers shouldn't be much of a problem, and a lot of times they won't even get installed for a while but just in case I want to be able to take them out. I expect to cut them eventually.

For breakers, I'm sticking with what I've been running in Quetzal for a while. Grappling Hook, D4VID, Knight, and....here's where I'm stuck. Right now I use Darwin, which was better when I ran surge. Now i'm not so sure. Maybe Overmind for early aggression. E3 helps here, it's surprising how often I only need Grappling Hook, E3, and Deja Vus to win a game.

My deck doesn't have any of the keyhole/wanton/etc support yours does. It's about making 1 key run into a remote, knowing you can get in exactly when it's time. Trying to make room for Medium, as it has come up big in my standard Quetzal deck.
 
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Michael Redston
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Azgard12 wrote:
kroen wrote:
Didn't some mathy people found out that PPVP is almost never worth it outside Kate?

Things change?

Math doesn't change. PPVP's cost outside Kate is equivalent to 4c (1 click to draw+1 click and 2c to play). That means you have to use is 4 turns to break even, and 5+ turns to make a profit of 1c per turn you use it. It's pretty underwhelming considering better economy options exist for all factions. Currently only Kate mitigates this, and in the future Haley will too. Oh, actually, MaxX does too.
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Raf Cordero
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kroen wrote:
Azgard12 wrote:
kroen wrote:
Didn't some mathy people found out that PPVP is almost never worth it outside Kate?

Things change?

Math doesn't change. PPVP's cost outside Kate is equivalent to 4c (1 click to draw+1 click and 2c to play). That means you have to use is 4 turns to break even, and 5+ turns to make a profit of 1c per turn you use it. It's pretty underwhelming considering better economy options exist for all factions. Currently only Kate mitigates this, and in the future Haley will too. Oh, actually, MaxX does too.


Here, check this recent article out. Anarchs event economy with PPVP is pretty solid, and their draw gets better too.
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Captain Frisk
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kroen wrote:
Azgard12 wrote:
kroen wrote:
Didn't some mathy people found out that PPVP is almost never worth it outside Kate?

Things change?

Math doesn't change.


Sure, but the composition of events does change... that first article was pre day job, and pre cutlery.

Day job shows up for Anarch, as well as a bunch of cutlery events that you want to be playing frequently.
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Clyde W
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Plus Inject and I've Had Worse now get you cards more efficiently, throwing off the math even further.
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Zak Jarvis
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kroen wrote:
Currently only Kate mitigates this[...]


To be fair, 'Inside Man' and 'The Supplier' have an even better discount! Of course your deck needs to have enough hardware (or hardware and resources) for those cards to make sense to start with.
 
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Michael Redston
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Touche.
 
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kroen wrote:
Azgard12 wrote:
kroen wrote:
Didn't some mathy people found out that PPVP is almost never worth it outside Kate?

Things change?

Math doesn't change. PPVP's cost outside Kate is equivalent to 4c (1 click to draw+1 click and 2c to play). That means you have to use is 4 turns to break even, and 5+ turns to make a profit of 1c per turn you use it. It's pretty underwhelming considering better economy options exist for all factions. Currently only Kate mitigates this, and in the future Haley will too. Oh, actually, MaxX does too.

In math, there are variables. Since this is a living card game, we get more cards over time and options change.
 
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Tim Silver
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You're already running Clone Chips so why not Duggar's for card draw. Also, Retrieval Run exists and you're playing PPVP. Thirdly, I'm not sure cutlery and Parasites are both needed.
 
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