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Subject: Shipping mixup: what would you do? Goa vs...... rss

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Shannon McNair
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Ok, a little while back I ordered Traders of Genoa because it is one of a few games I'd like to have. The package arrived today, and instead of Traders of Genoa, it was Goa. Before I go back to the Ebay seller, I want to think this one through first. If it were YOU, and you were choosing between Goa and Traders of Genoa, which would you prefer. I can tell you that I have no games right now with open trading. I have to admit that trading is actually the one appealing part of Monopoly for me, but I'm not interested in playing tht game again really probably ever. I think y'all know what I'm talking about

That being said, I see Goa is more highly rated here on the Geek, and also it appears to be a game you could play with 2, so I might try and play with my sig other. So, a few questions:

1. Point blank, which would you take?
2. Is Goa good enough a game to play with 2? Does it have wife appeal?
3. Is Traders of Genoa, for those of us who like open trading, the right game to fill the niche? Or is there better out there?

Thanks in advance,

Pnumekin
 
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Brian Schlichting
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Well, I was interested in both games. If I accidentally got the wrong one, I'd just keep it and try for ToG again later. Less hassle, and Goa is a great game. There is only one woman in my gaming group, but she likes Goa a lot. It's her kind of thing, though - so I'm not sure what you mean by "wife appeal". What kind of games does your wife like?
 
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Mike N.
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I like both games, Shannon, but I rate Goa a little higher for a couple reasons.

First, it's just as good with 2 as with 3 or 4.

Second, the one benefit of Traders of Genoa - that it can be played with 5 - is countered by the time the game takes with 5. A 4 player game of Goa will top out at 1.5 hours. 5 player Traders of Genoa will easily clear 2 hours most of the time.

That said, Goa doesn't have much wife appeal (at least for my wife), and she's somewhat into Traders of Genoa.

If you're looking for a game to play with light to mid-weight gamers, and money's an issue, send it back for Traders. (I'd put in on a heaviness level with Puerto Rico and Santiago)

If money's no issue, get both.

If money's an issue, and you have a crowd that likes games that include a good amount of thinking (like Reef Encounter or In the Shadow of the Emperor, or Tikal or Torres) keep Goa exclusively.
 
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Shannon McNair
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I've not determined that there is a "kind", but there are games she's liked. I think her favorite is Palazzo by Knizia, which is a bit like Alhambra. She also seems to quite like Thurn and Taxis, a non-competitive game. She also likes Lost Cities and San Juan. She doesn't like Battle Line (hates it, in fact, because it is too competitive). She also finds Carcassonne boring. That's about all I've played with her.

Again, how well does this game play with 2? There's an auction. Auctions with 2 are often pointless, though the clever mechanics in Palazzo seem to circumvent this to our satisfaction.
 
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Eddie the Cranky Gamer
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Goa is a fine game, they tell me. I've had it for ages and have yet to play it. Same with Traders of Genoa. So I can't advise one over the other, but I'd feel safe with either if I were you.

That said, what you should do is turn around and get them to sell you a copy of Genoa for a song. To settle the auction as per the terms of it they'd have to pay for you to ship Goa back, and pay for Genoa to be sent. So offer to give them a little more money for a copy of Genoa.
 
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Mark Wilson
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Goa! Good 2 player game with my wife and she also loves games like Alhambra. I would go with Goa, as you can't go wrong with it. Both games are about equal in price, so you really can't go wrong. Genoa can fall flat with some, but most everybody likes Goa, never had a bad game of it. Go for it! :-)
 
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Stephen Sanders
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I can't speak for Traders of Genoa, but I have played two player games of Goa and have enjoyed them. I would think you have a keeper.
 
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Brad Miller
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Can't stand either of them. Send it back, and tell the seller to keep ToG as well...
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Brian Schlichting
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Because she likes Alhambra, Thurn and Taxis, and San Juan - I think Goa is a good bet. Many people describe the game as multiplayer solitaire, with little player interaction - like the three games above. I would say three things to that. 1. It's somewhat true. 2. The auctions mitigate that A LOT in my opinion. 3. I like multiplayer solitaire games - and so does the woman in our game group. that's all I got for ya. meeple
 
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Darren M
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Ok... everyone has a different viewpoint so you are going to get as many different views as responders to your question.

My personal take is that in the world of Euros... Goa is a Top 10 type of game and The Traders of Genoa is a Top 50 type of game. I think both are worth having but I'd purchase Goa before Traders of Genoa (but I'd still get both).

Both these games are ranked on BGG where I would roughly rank them overall as well and I think they are both well worth owing in a diversified gaming collection.

That being said they are both very different games (by the same designer coincidentally). I'd say The Traders of Genoa is the game with a little higher chance of being loved/hated by groups. Any game with as much trading/negotiating as Traders has will almost by definition be disliked by a certain percentage of people who just dislike that type of game but on the other hand it's also the type of game that can really be a fun experience when everyone is on the "same page" and everyone gets into the swing of creatively trading and wheeling/dealing.

You may hear a few comments that Goa is pretty dry whereas Traders of Genoa is more flavorful and truer to the theme it conveys... it certainly has the mechanisms of trading and negotiating in abundance... that's about all it is.

Goa is more along the lines of Puerto Rico, Princes of Florence, El Grande etc. Not really similar to those in terms of exact mechanisms and gameplay but rather the commonality revolves around the strong "system" of rules and mechanisms that steers your play towards achieving goals to succeed at the game.

Traders of Genoa is more freeform with a somewhat looser grip on how you are best going to achieve the goals to do well at the game.

The two games appeal to different parts of a gamer's mindset (and a group's collective personality as well) so it's almost like apples and oranges in some ways to compare them.

I think in many ways Goa is the safer bet but IF your group "gets" Traders... it's likely the best choice out of those two that may deliver longer term "fun" for a group. The risk is that you discover your group dislikes that type of game and it then has little replay value... but you can't be sure until you try.

 
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Chris Shaffer
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nexttothemoon wrote:
Ok... everyone has a different viewpoint so you are going to get as many different views as responders to your question.

My personal take is that in the world of Euros... Goa is a Top 10 type of game and The Traders of Genoa is a Top 50 type of game. I think both are worth having but I'd purchase Goa before Traders of Genoa (but I'd still get both).


Yup, everyone has a different view. I'd say Traders of Genoa is a top 20 kind of game, while Goa is a top 200 kind of game. I believe that the expedition track in Goa is slightly broken...

At any rate, with the right group of players, Traders of Genoa jumps up to a top 5 kind of game. Its primary disadvantage is finding that "right group of players" because it clearly falls flat with some people. Traders plays best with 5, decently with 4, and imho isn't worth playing with 2 or 3. Goa plays well with 2, 3 or 4.

If I had to choose between them, I'd buy Traders of Genoa first every time. That said, I didn't have to choose, so I own both.

nexttothemoon wrote:
I think in many ways Goa is the safer bet but IF your group "gets" Traders... it's likely the best choice out of those two that may deliver longer term "fun" for a group. The risk is that you discover your group dislikes that type of game and it then has little replay value... but you can't be sure until you try.


nexttothemoon's analysis and description of the flavor of both games is pretty good, and I agree with this conclusion.

Note that you might get different responses in the Traders of Genoa forum...
 
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Werner Bär
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Pnumekin wrote:
I can tell you that I have no games right now with open trading.

You're right. Since Goa doesn't have any trading it it. It's a mix of an auction game, lots of multiplayer solitare, and a bit of a race game.

Quote:
1. Point blank, which would you take?

Goa, since i already own Traders
Well, i think Traders is the better game. I like some other games called 'multiplayer solitaire' like Thurn and Taxis, Empire Builder, and Ticket to Ride Europe, but Goa ... it's a nice litte game once in a while, but not more.

Quote:
2. Is Goa good enough a game to play with 2?

That's the point for Goa, in your comparision.
Traders is best with 5, good with 4, and don't play it with less than that.
Goa is IMO best with 3, ok with 2, not as good with 4.

Quote:
3. Is Traders of Genoa, for those of us who like open trading, the right game to fill the niche? Or is there better out there?

It's the best trading game IMO. But it has a drawback: With people that want to squeeze the last bit out of every single trade, it can easily take 3-4 hours instead of the usual 2.

Another good trading game with more 'wife appeal' would be Bohnanza.
 
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Shannon McNair
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Quote:
3. Is Traders of Genoa, for those of us who like open trading, the right game to fill the niche? Or is there better out there?

It's the best trading game IMO. But it has a drawback: With people that want to squeeze the last bit out of every single trade, it can easily take 3-4 hours instead of the usual 2.


Yeah, the time factor was a bit of a concern. I'd have preferred to do Chinatown, but it is out of print, expensive 2nd hand, and Alea is hard-core about not reprinting it. A shame. A shorter trading game would be nice.

Quote:

Another good trading game with more 'wife appeal' would be Bohnanza.

As for Bohanza, I heard it doesn't play well with 2. Can you confirm?
 
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David
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Pnumekin wrote:
As for Bohanza, I heard it doesn't play well with 2. Can you confirm?


Seems fine to me. Bear in mind 2-player Bohnanza uses special rules.
 
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Ryan McLelland
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Goa by a mile.
 
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Seth Jaffee
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RyanMC wrote:
Goa by a mile.

Agreed, especially if you can't get 4 or 5 people together at a time. They're both pretty good though.
 
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Rick Holzgrafe
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I think you'll be happier with Goa. Traders doesn't work well with two. Also you said your wife prefers less confrontational games; Traders isn't exactly "confrontational" but the Tower player gets to make a lot of arbitrary decisions, and if too many don't go your way, you can start to feel kind of dumped on.

For my own part, I much prefer Goa. It's an excellent design. I'm not a big fan of Traders because, as others have said, Traders can drag on for a long time if you have a competitive, argumentative, or indecisive group. Every little step of the game requires an all-hands negotiation before it can be completed. I also find it frustrating because you can't form much in the way of long-term (or even short-term) plans because any plan you make can be derailed by the outcome of the negotiations.
 
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Joe Everton
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My wife likes Goa. Just today I was trying to figure out what the games she likes have in common, and I didn't come up with much. Usually she likes games shorter than 45 minutes, and this is a rare exception. Usually, when we play games, she doesn't like too much thinking (probably because I take to long to go). Somehow she likes Goa, though. I think it has more "wife appeal" than you'd expect.

I think it's because she has a knack for remembering how much money I have, and that gives her an advantage in it, 2-player.

I've never played Traders of Genoa, so I can't compare, but Goa is a good game. Better than I expected.
 
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