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Subject: Stephen Fry on what he would say to God rss

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J
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We really could do without the warble fly.
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Boaty McBoatface
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This really is a fantastic monologue. I 100% agree with Mr Fry.
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Junior McSpiffy
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So, the Problem Of Evil but for two minutes. Well spoken, I'll give him that.

DrWhoWho may be gone, but his spirit lives on.
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Ah, Vanity. My favorite sin.
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Erik Henry
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“Try to exclude the possibility of suffering which the order of nature and the existence of free-wills involve, and you find that you have excluded life itself.”
― C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain
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MWChapel wrote:
Ah, Vanity. My favorite sin.
Pffft. Lust, gluttony, and sloth are the best, especially when concatenated over a Sunday.
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Erik17 wrote:
“Try to exclude the possibility of suffering which the order of nature and the existence of free-wills involve, and you find that you have excluded life itself.”
― C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain


Which would be a good counter-argument, if you weren't talking about the guy who supposedly designed life that way.
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Erik Henry
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Dolphinandrew wrote:
Erik17 wrote:
“Try to exclude the possibility of suffering which the order of nature and the existence of free-wills involve, and you find that you have excluded life itself.”
― C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain


Which would be a good counter-argument, if you weren't talking about the guy who supposedly designed life that way.

So he should have created a world in which mutually exclusive things were possible?
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Boaty McBoatface
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Erik17 wrote:
Dolphinandrew wrote:
Erik17 wrote:
“Try to exclude the possibility of suffering which the order of nature and the existence of free-wills involve, and you find that you have excluded life itself.”
― C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain


Which would be a good counter-argument, if you weren't talking about the guy who supposedly designed life that way.

So he should have created a world in which mutually exclusive things were possible?
Why are the mutually exclusive?
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J
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Erik17 wrote:
So he should have created a world in which mutually exclusive things were possible?

He's God, why put limits on his creation abilities?
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Ed Holzman
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Dolphinandrew wrote:
Erik17 wrote:
“Try to exclude the possibility of suffering which the order of nature and the existence of free-wills involve, and you find that you have excluded life itself.”
― C.S. Lewis, The Problem of Pain


Which would be a good counter-argument, if you weren't talking about the guy who supposedly designed life that way.

Wrong. Life was "designed" to be free and easy, but man chose the hard way.
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Junior McSpiffy
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**sigh.....**

There are immutable rules to existence. God has just maximized His ability to work within those rules. For all intents and purposes to our limited perspective, that makes Him all-powerful. But all-powerful doesn't not mean limitless power. It just means that all power that is available for one entity to possess... He's got it.

So when you ask why God doesn't just create a system where people don't suffer the consequences of their actions (or suffer because of the consequences of the actions of others), it's because such a system cannot exist.
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Boaty McBoatface
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GameCrossing wrote:
**sigh.....**

There are immutable rules to existence. God has just maximized His ability to work within those rules. For all intents and purposes to our limited perspective, that makes Him all-powerful. But all-powerful doesn't not mean limitless power. It just means that all power that is available for one entity to possess... He's got it.

So when you ask why God doesn't just create a system where people don't suffer the consequences of their actions (or suffer because of the consequences of the actions of others), it's because such a system cannot exist.
Sp omnipotence means "limited power"?
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slatersteven wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
**sigh.....**

There are immutable rules to existence. God has just maximized His ability to work within those rules. For all intents and purposes to our limited perspective, that makes Him all-powerful. But all-powerful doesn't not mean limitless power. It just means that all power that is available for one entity to possess... He's got it.

So when you ask why God doesn't just create a system where people don't suffer the consequences of their actions (or suffer because of the consequences of the actions of others), it's because such a system cannot exist.
Sp omnipotence means "limited power"?


I believe this is quozl's cue.
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slatersteven wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
**sigh.....**

There are immutable rules to existence. God has just maximized His ability to work within those rules. For all intents and purposes to our limited perspective, that makes Him all-powerful. But all-powerful doesn't not mean limitless power. It just means that all power that is available for one entity to possess... He's got it.

So when you ask why God doesn't just create a system where people don't suffer the consequences of their actions (or suffer because of the consequences of the actions of others), it's because such a system cannot exist.
Sp omnipotence means "limited power"?



Not for Him. For us. This is our arena to learn the lessons we need to.

"Suffering" and dealing with it is part of it.
 
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Junior McSpiffy
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slatersteven wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
**sigh.....**

There are immutable rules to existence. God has just maximized His ability to work within those rules. For all intents and purposes to our limited perspective, that makes Him all-powerful. But all-powerful doesn't not mean limitless power. It just means that all power that is available for one entity to possess... He's got it.

So when you ask why God doesn't just create a system where people don't suffer the consequences of their actions (or suffer because of the consequences of the actions of others), it's because such a system cannot exist.
Sp omnipotence means "limited power"?


It means "all power available."

And now, ladies and gentleman, for your listening pleasure.... the 93,412th verse of "Can God Create A Boulder So Big He Can't Lift It!"

Hit it.
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Boaty McBoatface
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GameCrossing wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
**sigh.....**

There are immutable rules to existence. God has just maximized His ability to work within those rules. For all intents and purposes to our limited perspective, that makes Him all-powerful. But all-powerful doesn't not mean limitless power. It just means that all power that is available for one entity to possess... He's got it.

So when you ask why God doesn't just create a system where people don't suffer the consequences of their actions (or suffer because of the consequences of the actions of others), it's because such a system cannot exist.
Sp omnipotence means "limited power"?


It means "all power available."

And now, ladies and gentleman, for your listening pleasure.... the 93,412th verse of "Can God Create A Boulder So Big He Can't Lift It!"

Hit it.
Did he create the universe, and thus those rule?

As to omnipotence, it seems the meaning has changed. Certainly it seems that some dictionaries just say it means
Quote:
an agency or force of unlimited power
whilst others says
Quote:
the quality of having unlimited or very great power.
.
 
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GameCrossing wrote:

It means "all power available."

And now, ladies and gentleman, for your listening pleasure.... the 93,412th verse of "Can God Create A Boulder So Big He Can't Lift It!"

Hit it.


In other words, what powers are unavailable? Who defined them? How do they exist?
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Trey Stone
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TheChin! wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:

It means "all power available."

And now, ladies and gentleman, for your listening pleasure.... the 93,412th verse of "Can God Create A Boulder So Big He Can't Lift It!"

Hit it.


In other words, what powers are unavailable? Who defined them? How do they exist?


Mystery.
 
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Bearcat89 wrote:
Wrong. Life was "designed" to be free and easy, but man chose the hard way.

I wasn't asked. I would have chosen the easy way!
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GameCrossing wrote:
So when you ask why God doesn't just create a system where people don't suffer the consequences of their actions (or suffer because of the consequences of the actions of others), it's because such a system cannot exist.

Bah, I have it on good authority that if the fine structure constant was just tweaked a bit, suffering is eliminated.
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Bearcat89 wrote:

Wrong. Life was "designed" to be free and easy, but man chose the hard way.


Wasn't man designed to choose the hard way?
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TheChin! wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:

It means "all power available."

And now, ladies and gentleman, for your listening pleasure.... the 93,412th verse of "Can God Create A Boulder So Big He Can't Lift It!"

Hit it.


In other words, what powers are unavailable? Who defined them? How do they exist?


So I've already set this up as "With our limited visibility and understanding, God appears to be able to do anything despite being bound by some rules and laws." Your response to that is "Which rules and laws?" How should I know? I'm one of those dopes with the limited vision and understanding.

Did God create gravity, or did He create a universe which maximized the abilities of gravity to make things work really really cool and where He knows how to manipulate it to make miracle-y-looking things happen?

I dunno. But for all intents and purposes for me and my life and my existence, that detail doesn't matter in the slightest. I got other things I need to worry about.
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GameCrossing wrote:
**sigh.....**

There are immutable rules to existence. God has just maximized His ability to work within those rules. For all intents and purposes to our limited perspective, that makes Him all-powerful. But all-powerful doesn't not mean limitless power. It just means that all power that is available for one entity to possess... He's got it.

So when you ask why God doesn't just create a system where people don't suffer the consequences of their actions (or suffer because of the consequences of the actions of others), it's because such a system cannot exist.


So, for you, this god is not omnipotent then, as is usually claimed. I see.
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jmilum wrote:
Bearcat89 wrote:
Wrong. Life was "designed" to be free and easy, but man chose the hard way.

I wasn't asked. I would have chosen the easy way!


You're here, so you were asked and you didn't choose the easy way.

(EDITOR'S NOTE: The previous post was laced with heavy doses of Mormon-specific theology.)
 
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