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Android: Netrunner» Forums » Rules

Subject: Gravedigger and hosted condition counters rss

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Arto Sandroos
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Gravedigger



triggers when an installed corp card is trashed. Oversight AI, Patch and probably some other cards are installed as "hosted condition counters", that is, they are not installed corp cards(?) Thus, Gravedigger should only get one counter when, for example, an OAI'd Curtain Wall is trashed?
 
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Eric Rampson
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Correct. OAI is not "installed" it is an Operation that is played and places a counter on a piece of ICE. You just use the card as the counter to cut down on clutter.
 
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Christian Eipper
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As far as I know, Oversight AI isn't considered an installed card by any other abilities, so based on that I'd say your interpretation is correct.
 
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AmtsboteHannes wrote:
As far as I know, Oversight AI isn't considered an installed card by any other abilities, so based on that I'd say your interpretation is correct.


This is correct. See ruling: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/954412/ruling-lukas-oversig...
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Nushura
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Tup. And the same thing holds for current operations
 
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Hannes Sörensson
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Scud-O wrote:
Correct. OAI is not "installed" it is an Operation that is played and places a counter on a piece of ICE. You just use the card as the counter to cut down on clutter.


It's installed, but it's not a card.
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Zak Jarvis
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It's true that 'Oversight AI' isn't a card while it's being a counter, but also it's important to note that it goes back to being a card when the host ICE is trashed.

It does this because of the specific FAQ errata:

FAQ: 'Oversight AI' wrote:
* Oversight AI is treated as a condition counter, and is no longer an operation, while it is active.
* Oversight AI is trashed to the Archives if the host ice is uninstalled.


So, it stops being a counter when it ceases to be active. And it (as a condition counter) it is specifically trashed to Archives, where it becomes inactive and thus a card again.

Note that the whole condition counter/card thing is generally very messy. For instance, note that:

FAQ: Hosting wrote:
If a host is trashed or uninstalled, all cards, counters, and tokens hosted on it are also trashed. This cannot be prevented. If a host Corp card is derezzed, all cards, counters, and tokens hosted on it remain hosted.


What does trashing a counter or token mean? Usually people take it to mean "put it back in the pool". For instance, 'Imp' has a hosted virus counter, and 'Imp' gets trashed. You must "trash" the counter. I'm not sure this is defined, yet it's what people seem to understand to make sense.

However:

Bioroid Efficiency Research wrote:
[...] install Bioroid Efficiency Research on that ice as a hosted condition counter with the text "Trash Bioroid Efficiency Research and derez host ice if all of its subroutines are broken during a single encounter.


This becomes a condition counter and may be trashed as a counter, either through the stated trigger, or simply as a hosted counter if the host is uninstalled by any means.

It doesn't have any of the extra rules that 'Oversight AI' does in the FAQ. It's not a card, yet have you ever seen anyone do anything other than trash it to Archives, as a card?

If we understand (although it's not defined) that other counter types go back to the pool (virus counters, power counters, credits etc.) when trashed, shouldn't a trashed 'Bioroid Efficiency Research' counter go to the bioroid efficiency research counter pool?

Or does everyone else actually remove it from the game when trashed, and I've just played against odd people who understand to put it into Archives (thus turning it from a counter to a card)?
 
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Jacob Morris
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Even given all that logic, it is not a card when it is trashed. Therefore it doesn't trigger Gravedigger. Doesn't matter.

I kinda want to write in to Lukas though to get some actual rules about this. I imagine it'll be something along the lines of it becoming a card again once it hits the token bank or leaves play or something.
 
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Zak Jarvis
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Absolutely it doesn't trigger 'Gravedigger', as I noted first. I was just adding the note on the wider point of cards becoming condition counters that it isn't the altogether "smoothest" part of the rules!

I think the question in point is: "How do you trash counters and tokens? (as required in the Hosting part of the FAQ)"

All of the references to trashing seem to be in relation to cards, not counters or tokens.

There is a follow-up question of intent, which is: "Are the points in the FAQ for 'Oversight AI' supposed to be a general extension to the rules for all cards that remain in play and become condition counters?"

Those points are the trashing to Archives with the uninstallation of the host, and the acting as a counter while active (and an assumption, though not explicitly spelled out, that this means only while active, so that the counters return to being cards when inactive, and assuming again that counters become inactive in Archives as cards do).

Maybe if this is a general principle, it'd be better under a 'Condition counters' heading rather than FAQs for specific cards.
 
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