Shane Ruman
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Played 3 games against it in a store championship yesterday -- MaXX version and Reina x 2 ( she had 3 AS, 3 SoT, 3 Deja vu ... not fun . Managed to sneak out 2/3 wins with NEH but lost the other in a blow out and the wins were close. It's an undeniably strong deck skeleton, especially imho the MaXX version, and I think it will be very prevalent for awhile anyway. Other than just splashing crisium all over place what are people's thoughts on counters. Musing on my walk-in brought me 3 ideas:

- HB:ST with lots of cheap-ish taxing bioroid ice. Live with the fact they're getting in but make it cost in clicks or cash to do it. Goal would be a keyhole run costs 9+ credits or 2 clicks and 6+ credits which should be do-able with 3 little (or 2 larger) bioroids at +1 strength. Splash in san-san's that will hopefully survive for 1-2 agendas behind 2+ taxing ice. Utensils be obviously a problem (but always the case I think) but if it costs a card and 7 credits (or 2+2 clicks) to get rid of my Viktor 1.0, I'll call that draw.

- Tag Storm type deck. I noticed from games and deck lists that builds seem to be tag-me (especially with Joshua B. in them). So if could punish that ( closed accounts ) and leverage it ( psychographics on either Beale or just for plain FA potential on astro ) might be worth it.

- Also on the tag-me note, Super-modernism type thing slanted even heavier towards the scorch. If they have steelskin(s) and enough cards when the scorches come ... oh well, that's the way it goes.


And .. of course CGs x 2 in all those. What are other people's thoughts on dealing with this runner combination?

 
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Rob Jennings
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Swordsman is good too, as is wraparound. Tollbooth still costs a small fortune to get through with Eater too. This deck is really strong against the tiny ice that's become so popular, but if you run things that are a bit more substantial, then Eater stops being so efficient.

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Andrew Keddie
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Sealed Vault/Crisium Grid still exist I guess. As do all the other methods we've used since Core to avoid AS.

Sorry that probably comes across as snarky, but I'm about as worried about Eater/Siphon as I am about any other Siphon enabler (which is to say it's something I will consider when deckbuilding/playing).
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wanderingmystic
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wiley15 wrote:
- Also on the tag-me note, Super-modernism type thing slanted even heavier towards the scorch. If they have steelskin(s) and enough cards when the scorches come ... oh well, that's the way it goes.


I've noticed Maxx especially tends to draw past her "I've Had Worse" cards. Granted you never know when they're in the runner's hand, but it's easy enough to check the runner's heap, the size of the remaining stack, and make an educated guess. Maxx isn't also very likely to deja vu for I've Had Worse, since priority is on AS, Wanton Destruction and other big anarch power plays.
From my initial (limited) observations, this kind of deck (especially Maxx) is weak to damage. Focusing on protecting archives with Jackson and drawing in to a kill is the best route for now, I think.

Remember to double ice your scoring server, since "Install Knight, Move, Run" is a thing.

If they are playing AS recursion, they are likely playing tag-me, so drawing into 2 scorches is the goal.
 
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Bradley Galbraith
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A few games on OCTGN as a Gagarin Deep Space deck and I've got a few observations:

The Keyhole + Eater thing suffers heavily from Architect on R&D (3c per run per architect, non trashable) and Paywall Implementation (1 credit every time they run successfully).
If you set up a scoring remote with Ash and 1 or 2 unrezzed Ice, they have to spend more than a whole turn worth of clicks to get in. Again, if you compound this with Paywall Implementation you're rolling dough. I think I scored more Government Contracts yesterday on OCTGN than I've ever scored any 3 pointers since I started playing Netrunner...
Crisium Grid is really good to stop Keyhole or Wanton Destruction runs. It also works on a scoring remote if they happen to be running Singularity (I've seen the SlySquid deck definitely has a singleton).
I've found Checkpoint to be a particularly taxing piece of Ice for Eater, 5 credits to strength and trash (if you include the bad publicity) is pretty taxing for a 4c rez cost. The deck I've been using has Veteran's Programs that were pretty easily scorable to remove the BP.
 
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Shane Ruman
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Good point about wrap-around, swordsman I'm less convinced on since it's so weak outside this match-up (and even inside once they retrieval run their femme).
 
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Shane Ruman
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CommissarFeesh wrote:
Sealed Vault/Crisium Grid still exist I guess. As do all the other methods we've used since Core to avoid AS.

Sorry that probably comes across as snarky, but I'm about as worried about Eater/Siphon as I am about any other Siphon enabler (which is to say it's something I will consider when deckbuilding/playing).


Fair enough point about Siphon enablers, but in these decks, Siphon seems to just be there to spread your ice thinner (and an extra kick when you're down), the primary plan is destroying all the ice in front of R&D (parasites and/or utensils) and then Keyholing their way to victory.
 
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Alejandro G.
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That archetype will be short lived. Once players realize that, "Hey, Crisium Grid is only 1 influence each!" then that combo will be stopped cold.

Plus Wraparound just became a thing again if all these Anarchs are going to go ONLY Eater + Keyhole. Sure pay 6 to break wraparound chump.
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Knifed? Break it once!

Anyhow, anarch's (Valencia) should seriously be considering blackmail medium for the win... don't worry about ice at all.
 
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Well, the first thing I would do is to have some cool assets that force them to play and use the incredibly expensive Crypsis. They can't let Daily Bussiness Show or the like to go untrashed so playing assets relieves central pressure.

I also agree that Wraparound, Swordsmans and other 1 influence choices (Viper) should be great.
 
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Ulrik Bøe
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gumOnShoe wrote:
Knifed? Break it once!

Anyhow, anarch's (Valencia) should seriously be considering blackmail medium for the win... don't worry about ice at all.


Ooh...Blackmail, Medium, Incubator and Demo Run...I wonder if it's possible to make a deck that can delay the corp long enough to get enough of the pieces together?
 
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Captain Frisk
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ulrik wrote:
gumOnShoe wrote:
Knifed? Break it once!

Anyhow, anarch's (Valencia) should seriously be considering blackmail medium for the win... don't worry about ice at all.


Ooh...Blackmail, Medium, Incubator and Demo Run...I wonder if it's possible to make a deck that can delay the corp long enough to get enough of the pieces together?


You can't demo run And blackmail unfortunately.
 
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Ulrik Bøe
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Captain_Frisk wrote:
ulrik wrote:
gumOnShoe wrote:
Knifed? Break it once!

Anyhow, anarch's (Valencia) should seriously be considering blackmail medium for the win... don't worry about ice at all.


Ooh...Blackmail, Medium, Incubator and Demo Run...I wonder if it's possible to make a deck that can delay the corp long enough to get enough of the pieces together?


You can't demo run And blackmail unfortunately.


True. Probably for the best. Incubator should still work!
 
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Captain_Frisk wrote:
ulrik wrote:
gumOnShoe wrote:
Knifed? Break it once!

Anyhow, anarch's (Valencia) should seriously be considering blackmail medium for the win... don't worry about ice at all.


Ooh...Blackmail, Medium, Incubator and Demo Run...I wonder if it's possible to make a deck that can delay the corp long enough to get enough of the pieces together?


You can't demo run And blackmail unfortunately.


True, but blackmail+medium has been highly effective out of valencia. There were decks back when blackmail came out that were all about spamming blackmail and medium as many times as possible. IMO, demo run is the least required card out of the bunch.

If you're reading this and you don't have BP protection in your deck, go back to the drawing board and try again.
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Ulrik Bøe
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gumOnShoe wrote:
True, but blackmail+medium has been highly effective out of valencia.


Do you use any backup bad pub cards, in case the corp removes the first one?
 
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Pedraum
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ulrik wrote:
gumOnShoe wrote:
True, but blackmail+medium has been highly effective out of valencia.


Do you use any backup bad pub cards, in case the corp removes the first one?


My Valencia runs 2x Activist Support if Corp begins removing bad pub & 2X of New Angeles City Hall to prevent to tag it gives. Haven't needed to use it yet, since most Corps are still not removing bad pub. But it's probably the best option if they begin to.

For reference...

http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/netrunner/android-netrun...

http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/netrunner/android-netrun...
 
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Shane Ruman
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Most decks I've seen use 3xInvestigative Journalism and combo it with Iternant Protestors for maximum annoyance
 
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