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Subject: Deck Theorycrafting: An Offer You Can't Refuse + Death Traps rss

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Kevin Ellenburg
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Seeing The Valley's An Offer You Can't Refuse (image here: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/android-netrun...) got me thinking of building a Harmony Medtech deck around the card with the objective of either killing the runner or scoring those and Medical Breakthroughs for the win. The most logical way I see for scoring the Offers is creating a deathtrap on Archives: The goal is to scare the runner into letting the Offers get scored, but if he chooses to run and dies in the process that's even better. Harmony's lower agenda requirement and deck size is there to make drawing Offers more likely and scoring them more impactful. I'm wondering about the most effective ways to make this sort of deck happen.

I'm only beginning to design this deck and could use some help on what sort of combos to include to make this work well. I unfortunately do not own any cards in the Lunar Cycle (own everything else, though), but I would still like to see Lunar Cycle cards suggested if they would drastically improve the deck. My only experience with Harmony Medtech so far is the prebuilt deck that came with Honor & Profit, so I'm starting with that deck's agenda suite as a base line.

Harmony Medtech (44 Cards)

Agendas: 19 Points (9 Cards)
3x Medical Breakthrough
3x The Future Perfect
1x Philotic Entanglement (Kill by scoring after An Offer?)
2x House of Knives (Further threaten kills through An Offer?)

Operations (10 Cards)
3x An Offer You Can't Refuse
3x Precognition (Allows prepping RnD for An Offer)
3x Mushin No Shin
1x Fast Track

Assets (11 Cards)
3x Shi.kyu (Standard for Medtech, but doesn't threaten a kill)
3x Shock! (For Archives)
3x Space Camp (Use An Offer to potentially fast advance agendas)
1x The Board (Shi.kyu becomes worth -2. Valuable for buying time in the game but doesn't threaten a kill. Maybe Chairman Hiro instead or in addition to? Maybe more execs and Self Destruct?)
1x Plan B (because Mushin No Shin)

ICE (9 Cards)
3x Checkpoint (Place on Archives to combo w/ An Offer)
3x Komainu (Again: Place on Archives to combo w/ An offer)
3x Inazuma (for non-Offer death traps)

39 Cards Used. 5 to add. I realize that 5 cards isn't good enough to add economy and make my ICE suite actually decent, so I probably need to cut some things. What are your guys thoughts? I'm not really sure on ICE and econ. My one thought on this is that Offer needs some set up to create scary servers that the runner doesn't want to touch, so this deck might need to lean a bit more towards late game than towards rush. Ideally, the deck would get Offer into a position where it can threaten death and thereby score points as quickly as possible.

Some cards that I intentionally did not include (Let me know if you think the deck needs them)
Snare! - Would work if I could precognition it on top of RnD before the offer, but not being able to proc off of Archives hurts it.

Neural EMP - A good follow up to an Offer into Komainu/Shocks, but I think House of Knives, Entanglement, and 3x Shock covers its role. Worth considering if these cards are removed.
 
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Nushura
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Re: Deck Theorycrafting: Comboing Harmony Medtech + An Offer You Can't Refuse + Death Traps
It seems to me that you want to aim for different things: Precognition for R&D, shock for archives, Mushin no Shin for... what do you want to do in there? A Space Camp? It will not kill the runner!

My suggestion is that you focus on one thing. My personal favorite would be why Mushin no shin, cerebral overwriter and the offer.

If runner accesses the card, they take 3 brain damage. Otherwise you get 1 Agenda point and tons of trick of light Shenigans. Moreover, the second time you make them the offer you can do it on a medical Breakthrough...or even a Ronin
 
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Kevin Ellenburg
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Re: Deck Theorycrafting: + An Offer You Can't Refuse + Death Traps
I agree that the deck is currently focusing on a bit too many different directions. Unfortunately, Offer + Mushin No Shin doesn't work - Offer is limited to Central Servers. If I do keep the Space Camps, Ronin would make a lot of sense for the deck to turn those Space Camps into death traps.
 
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Peter Hopkins
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Re: Deck Theorycrafting: + An Offer You Can't Refuse + Death Traps
Nushura wrote:
It seems to me that you want to aim for different things: Precognition for R&D, shock for archives, Mushin no Shin for... what do you want to do in there? A Space Camp? It will not kill the runner!

My suggestion is that you focus on one thing. My personal favorite would be why Mushin no shin, cerebral overwriter and the offer.

If runner accesses the card, they take 3 brain damage. Otherwise you get 1 Agenda point and tons of trick of light Shenigans. Moreover, the second time you make them the offer you can do it on a medical Breakthrough...or even a Ronin

The Offer needs to be on a Central, so you can't Mushin something out and Offer them that.

I worry that Eater will really hurt this, but seems like fun... I was worried initially as I thought the runner could choose the server, meaning you'd have to ice up everything for it to fire, but forcing the runner through your death server seems better. Would it maybe work better out of Industrial Genomics, though? You have the traps in there, and then you're already defending archives one way or another?
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Nushura
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D'oh, silly me for not seeing it must be a central server. And indeed an Eater (which will be quite frequent in the next decks) will block most of the damage away.

I do not see why Industrial Genomics would help. After all, you do not want them to successfully run into archives with that id, right?

It seems to me that we can have more fun with this card with HB: it has a ton of powerful ICE that the runner won't be able to click through

Janus, Ichi,...hmmm
 
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Peter Hopkins
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Nushura wrote:
I do not see why Industrial Genomics would help. After all, you do not want them to successfully run into archives with that id, right?

I guess my thinking is that as IG you really want to shore up the defenses on Archives, whether that is by scattering traps in there or by having horrible ice over the top. Offer then becomes a way of triggering all those defenses you have set up (and presumably spent your card slots on), and is in your control rather than the runner's. You might be able to force open a score window elsewhere if they take the bait, you get a point for 4 credits if not.

 
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Steven Tu
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I think the best death-trap setup now is Twins + just about any damaging ICE. Sprinkle Inazuma or Wendigo or something and it's amazing.

I feel like The Twins is what that unmemorable Bioroids upgrade could have been. Man that one was just not good enough.
 
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Bradley Galbraith
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er, Awakening Center?
 
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Darin Flynn
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PaxCecilia wrote:
er, Awakening Center?

Awakening Center is pretty bad, but I think he meant Tyr's Hand. Weak, one time effect that doesn't actually fit into the run timing structure. How that one got through design and testing is beyond me.
 
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Matt
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If they don't have a Decoder (or AI that can break it...stupid Eater....), just put RSVP and Shinobi on archives, and offer the deal.

I don't think you care about Shocks and such in Archives or R&D because they don't have to access after completing the run, do they? I've been working on a similar deck and thought about the same thing (putting Snare! in the server), but they technically don't have to access any cards after getting through the ice, right? They can say "sure I'll take my chances", and then (assuming they don't die on the ice) choose to not access cards, unless I've missed something.
 
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Kevin Ellenburg
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Industrial Genomics, Bioroid ICE, and the Twins are all solid ideas for this kind of deck. I'm also planning to add in some Fetal AIs to make the Archives access all the more potentially fatal. Not sure of which agendas to drop just yet, though (I like the Houses of Knives, so either Future Perfects or Medical Breakthroughs). [Update: Fetal AI doesn't work in Archives]

Regarding the Runner's choice not to access cards: My understanding is that the runner has to either access cards or jack out. Since An Offer You Can't Refuse says that the runner can not jack out, he has to access cards. Eater certainly creates some problems with that, though.

Edit: I'm personally a big fan on Space Camp (it's my favorite card in the game right now), so I'm considering throwing in 2 or 3 Matrix analyzers to complement the fast advance potential. With 2 Matrix Analyzers on Archives and 2 Space Camps in Archives, it's possible to fast advance a Future Perfect or Fetal. If I go this route, Ronin makes even more sense for the deck, and I'll want to look at my advanceable ICE options (Wormhole?).
 
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Stephen Parkes
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humantyphoon wrote:
PaxCecilia wrote:
er, Awakening Center?

Awakening Center is pretty bad, but I think he meant Tyr's Hand. Weak, one time effect that doesn't actually fit into the run timing structure. How that one got through design and testing is beyond me.
Two cards from C&C that left me puzzled as to what they hell they were about: Exploratory Romp (which now has some utility in this post-H&P meta - I've even come across someone playing it) and Tyr's Hand. I just cannot see the point in that second card. I guess maybe against a Darwin or something else costing more than 1C to break a subroutine it might find some edge-case usefulness. Bunch of arse really though.

ALTHOUGH

I really want to make HB:ST a thing. 3 of these, plus 3 Heinleins? Hmmmm.
 
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Andrew Keddie
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StarryVeck wrote:
humantyphoon wrote:
PaxCecilia wrote:
er, Awakening Center?

Awakening Center is pretty bad, but I think he meant Tyr's Hand. Weak, one time effect that doesn't actually fit into the run timing structure. How that one got through design and testing is beyond me.
Two cards from C&C that left me puzzled as to what they hell they were about: Exploratory Romp (which now has some utility in this post-H&P meta - I've even come across someone playing it) and Tyr's Hand. I just cannot see the point in that second card. I guess maybe against a Darwin or something else costing more than 1C to break a subroutine it might find some edge-case usefulness. Bunch of arse really though.

ALTHOUGH

I really want to make HB:ST a thing. 3 of these, plus 3 Heinleins? Hmmmm.

Tyr's is used to stop E3 chaining, or force a Runner to re-click a Bioroid (or catch them with no clicks remaining and therefore unable to break).

In practice though I've never got it to work, even when comboing with ELP or Ruhr Valley.
 
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Robert Quirk
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kevnburg wrote:
Industrial Genomics, Bioroid ICE, and the Twins are all solid ideas for this kind of deck. I'm also planning to add in some Fetal AIs to make the Archives access all the more potentially fatal. Not sure of which agendas to drop just yet, though (I like the Houses of Knives, so either Future Perfects or Medical Breakthroughs).
Unfortunately (or fortunately for the runner) Fetal AIs do not trigger from Archives. Otherwise a couple of these plus a couple Shock!s is pretty much always a dead runner.

kevnburg wrote:
Regarding the Runner's choice not to access cards: My understanding is that the runner has to either access cards or jack out. Since An Offer You Can't Refuse says that the runner can not jack out, he has to access cards. Eater certainly creates some problems with that, though.
That is correct. With the running timing structure, at 4.2 the runner decides to either commit to accessing cards from the server or jack out. Considering the runner cannot jack out with AOYCR, they have to access if they get that far.
 
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Kevin Ellenburg
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Ah you're right about Fetal. Should have checked the card text. That's unfortunate.
 
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Steven Tu
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humantyphoon wrote:
PaxCecilia wrote:
er, Awakening Center?

Awakening Center is pretty bad, but I think he meant Tyr's Hand. Weak, one time effect that doesn't actually fit into the run timing structure. How that one got through design and testing is beyond me.

No, I meant Awakening Centre indeed. Sorry didn't bother looking up the card.

Awakening Centre really feels like a weak ass, more expensive smaller brother to The Twins. Granted, you need two duplicate ICE for the Twins to fire, but it's so much more deadly.

Tyr's Hand has its niche uses. Bioroids are niche like that for anything but making things expensive (Ichi, Eli)
 
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Kevin Ellenburg
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I've been reading the Tenin threads on this page and thinking more about this deck idea. I've decided to split this into two different decks using An Offer You Can't Refuse.

Deck 1: Tenin w/ space camps and matrix analyzers on Archives. Tenin's ability has a built in incentive for the runner to run on a server, so Tenin is already building nasty archives. Additionally, because the runner has an incentive to run every turn, it should be more likely to get the runner in a situation where they run on their turn and you then force them to either run again (potentially too taxxing because they just ran) or let you get an agenda point. Tricks of lights and advanceable ICE will certainly be thrown in. I'm thinking of leaning towards the extreme: maximize the number of advanceable cards and cards that add advancement counters.

Deck 2: Personal Evolution. When agendas do net damage, establishing a death trap in archives becomes all the more easy, and the runner will be all the more terrified of death when Archives is filled with tons of face down cards. Throw in Scorched Earths with a tag structure and/or Punitive Counterstrikes to mix the damage type options between meat and net in case dealing with a deck that has good answers to one or the other. Kitsune + Snare! is tempting. Unfortunately, the "add to score area" wording makes it sound like Offer won't combo with PE's ability. The main aspect that I need to figure out with this deck is the best way to balance the flatline potential with scoring potential; I want this deck to use the threat of death more as a way of forming scoring windows (especially via Offers) than as a way of flatlining.

Tentative Agenda Structure for the PE Deck (20 agenda points)
3x Labyrinthine Servers
3x Fetal AI
3x House of Knives
1x Philotic Entanglement

(Concern: Will this Agenda structure be easy enough to score? Should I keep the Medical Breakthroughs?)

Regarding this agenda choice: I intentionally removed the Future Perfects because I want to keep my Archives death trap options more available. i.e. if I have an agenda in hand, I want to always have the option of putting it in Archives to act as an extra shock. Psi games would mess that up. I replaced them with Labyrinthine because I'm already setting up traps that I want the runner to hit completely, but I'm not sure if Labyrinthine is the best choice.
 
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Andrew Keddie
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kevnburg wrote:
Unfortunately, the "add to score area" wording makes it sound like Offer won't combo with PE's ability.

You're correct, it won't. I like the idea though of forcing the Runner through a Kitsune with a Snare! and a Scorch (or two) in-hand (even better if you have some Shock!s in Archives).
 
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