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Subject: And Why Shouldn't Catan Be At the Top of the Hotness? rss

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Timothy Young
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Go ahead, give me one good reason.
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Gary Tanner
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Been around too long to still be hot, familiarity breeds contempt or, in this case, apathy.
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Colin Thomas
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Because the only reason it is there is because it is the example being used by the BGG usage survey that is going on currently.
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Magister Germanicus
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I love Catan, but it's still fairly new to me. I only discovered it due to BGG. It's in my hot list, but now I rarely play it without the Cities and Knights expansion.
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Catan may still be selling and getting played, but there are plenty of other games that are "trending" and much higher up on the gamer radar.
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Max DuBoff
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TIM0THY wrote:
Go ahead, give me one good reason.


Plenty of other games do what it does better.



(Hey, I still like it, but why would it be "hot?" It's for the most part a known commodity at this point.)
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Jeff Jarvis
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Because BGG users think that a game that sells 1000 copies in its lifetime from being a 5 minute wonder on Kickstarter is a hotter game than one that is time tested and popular. It's the whole hipster movement except in board game form.
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Eldar Closer
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MD1616 wrote:

Plenty of other games do what it does better.


For example?
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Timothy Young
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paedia wrote:
Because the only reason it is there is because it is the example being used by the BGG usage survey that is going on currently.


This is actually what I was fishing for. I just feel kinda dumb everytime I ask the question of why a particular game is on the hotness list. So I decided to go about it this way and maybe stir the pot a bit.

Tell me more about this usage survey. What's going on there?
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Colin Thomas
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TIM0THY wrote:
paedia wrote:
Because the only reason it is there is because it is the example being used by the BGG usage survey that is going on currently.


This is actually what I was fishing for. I just feel kinda dumb everytime I ask the question of why a particular game is on the hotness list. So I decided to go about it this way and maybe stir the pot a bit.

Tell me more about this usage survey. What's going on there?


On the front page, in the announcements section, is a thread that takes you to a survey that will help the admins with a coming redesign. Settlers is the game page they use as an example, so a bunch of people have likely loaded it.

Pretty long, but will be useful. And you get a microbadge!
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Timothy Young
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paedia wrote:
TIM0THY wrote:
paedia wrote:
Because the only reason it is there is because it is the example being used by the BGG usage survey that is going on currently.


This is actually what I was fishing for. I just feel kinda dumb everytime I ask the question of why a particular game is on the hotness list. So I decided to go about it this way and maybe stir the pot a bit.

Tell me more about this usage survey. What's going on there?


On the front page, in the announcements section, is a thread that takes you to a survey that will help the admins with a coming redesign. Settlers is the game page they use as an example, so a bunch of people have likely loaded it.

Pretty long, but will be useful. And you get a microbadge!


Thanks! I'll go check it out. Who can say 'no' to a free microbadge?
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Max DuBoff
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Eldarest wrote:
MD1616 wrote:

Plenty of other games do what it does better.


For example?


Well, Starfarers of Catan for starters, but I was talking more broadly about the resources -> VPs model that Catan pioneered and later Euros adopted.
 
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CARL SKUTSCH
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MD1616 wrote:
Eldarest wrote:
MD1616 wrote:

Plenty of other games do what it does better.


For example?


Well, Starfarers of Catan for starters, but I was talking more broadly about the resources -> VPs model that Catan pioneered and later Euros adopted.


For me, nothing does a better job of being a light intro Euro that my non-gamer friends can be sucked into playing and enjoying. It's why it's still in my collection even though I'm not very interested in playing as a general thing (meaning, when I have experienced players available).
 
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skutsch wrote:
MD1616 wrote:
Eldarest wrote:
MD1616 wrote:

Plenty of other games do what it does better.


For example?


Well, Starfarers of Catan for starters, but I was talking more broadly about the resources -> VPs model that Catan pioneered and later Euros adopted.


For me, nothing does a better job of being a light intro Euro that my non-gamer friends can be sucked into playing and enjoying. It's why it's still in my collection even though I'm not very interested in playing as a general thing (meaning, when I have experienced players available).
For intro euros, I whip out Aquadukt. Half an hour or so, and rules can be explained in 7 minutes or so. Plus, the d20 usually serves as their intro dice with sides of not exactly 6.
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CARL SKUTSCH
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ackmondual wrote:
skutsch wrote:
MD1616 wrote:
Eldarest wrote:
MD1616 wrote:

Plenty of other games do what it does better.


For example?


Well, Starfarers of Catan for starters, but I was talking more broadly about the resources -> VPs model that Catan pioneered and later Euros adopted.


For me, nothing does a better job of being a light intro Euro that my non-gamer friends can be sucked into playing and enjoying. It's why it's still in my collection even though I'm not very interested in playing as a general thing (meaning, when I have experienced players available).
For intro euros, I whip out Aquadukt. Half an hour or so, and rules can be explained in 7 minutes or so. Plus, the d20 usually serves as their intro dice with sides of not exactly 6.


Never played it, but it's almost a full point lower in rating than Catan. Just glancing at the images, it doesn't seem as appealing visually. But to each his own, of course. Still, since I already have Catan as my intro Euro game, there's no need for me to find another.
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skutsch wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
skutsch wrote:
MD1616 wrote:
Eldarest wrote:
MD1616 wrote:

Plenty of other games do what it does better.


For example?


Well, Starfarers of Catan for starters, but I was talking more broadly about the resources -> VPs model that Catan pioneered and later Euros adopted.


For me, nothing does a better job of being a light intro Euro that my non-gamer friends can be sucked into playing and enjoying. It's why it's still in my collection even though I'm not very interested in playing as a general thing (meaning, when I have experienced players available).
For intro euros, I whip out Aquadukt. Half an hour or so, and rules can be explained in 7 minutes or so. Plus, the d20 usually serves as their intro dice with sides of not exactly 6.


Never played it, but it's almost a full point lower in rating than Catan. Just glancing at the images, it doesn't seem as appealing visually. But to each his own, of course. Still, since I already have Catan as my intro Euro game, there's no need for me to find another.
Well, if BGG ratings take precedence, then I'll point out how Agricola is a full point higher than Settlers. I think all 3 of those games more or less deserve their ratings (I'd rate Aquadukt +0.40, while giving Catan about a 7.1, but each their own here too ), but I'm not going to say Agricola is necessarily better than Settlers as a "light intro Euro". Settlers does some stuff better than Aquadukt, while true of the converse. Settlers can get frustrating, even if you coach/guide newbies.
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CARL SKUTSCH
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ackmondual wrote:
skutsch wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
skutsch wrote:
MD1616 wrote:
Eldarest wrote:
MD1616 wrote:

Plenty of other games do what it does better.


For example?


Well, Starfarers of Catan for starters, but I was talking more broadly about the resources -> VPs model that Catan pioneered and later Euros adopted.


For me, nothing does a better job of being a light intro Euro that my non-gamer friends can be sucked into playing and enjoying. It's why it's still in my collection even though I'm not very interested in playing as a general thing (meaning, when I have experienced players available).
For intro euros, I whip out Aquadukt. Half an hour or so, and rules can be explained in 7 minutes or so. Plus, the d20 usually serves as their intro dice with sides of not exactly 6.


Never played it, but it's almost a full point lower in rating than Catan. Just glancing at the images, it doesn't seem as appealing visually. But to each his own, of course. Still, since I already have Catan as my intro Euro game, there's no need for me to find another.
Well, if BGG ratings take precedence, then I'll point out how Agricola is a full point higher than Settlers. I think all 3 of those games more or less deserve their ratings (I'd rate Aquadukt +0.40, while giving Catan about a 7.1, but each their own here too ), but I'm not going to say Agricola is necessarily better than Settlers as a "light intro Euro". Settlers does some stuff better than Aquadukt, while true of the converse. Settlers can get frustrating, even if you coach/guide newbies.
Just to be argumentative I have to say… You're calling Agricola a light intro Euro?!? It is WAY harder than Catan. Each turn you have 2+ people who can choose from 10+ things to do in a complex economic engine. In Catan you don't have to worry about starving! What do you consider a medium weight Euro if Agricola is light?

(I do totally agree that Agricola is a better game than Catan; my own ratings put it a 9 with Settlers at 7.)
 
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Because the game is an overemphasised gateway game...except people don't realise there is more beyond Catan. I was in the Catan rut for years and most of my friends from college never got out of it. People realise Catan is better than Monopoly but refuse to try any other game out of some primal fear that they could be disappointed. So Catan becomes their "best game ever" because they haven't tried anything beyond it. Even a Catan expansion is sometimes too much to hope for from these people.
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chris thatcher
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Quote:
Well, Starfarers of Catan for starters, but I was talking more broadly about the resources -> VPs model that Catan pioneered and later Euros adopted.


I have Starfarers, its good, but overall I prefer normal Catan. The cards in Starfarers can be fun but can also be tedious. Regular Catan's modularity is just great.

I still don't think anything does what Catan does better.
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Eldarest wrote:
MD1616 wrote:

Plenty of other games do what it does better.


For example?


Catan is great, but I prefer Archipelago and now Deus.
 
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Mike Wescott
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Because the game has little strategy and too much randomness in my opinion.
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Because it's the monopoly of gamer's games. Sure it can be fun sometimes. Even enjoyable occasionally but I'd still rather play 95% of collection over it.
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Catan might be a gateway to serious gaming, but there are probably hundreds of better games a serious gamer could share with casual players, from fillers to light one hour games.
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MD1616 wrote:
Eldarest wrote:
MD1616 wrote:

Plenty of other games do what it does better.


For example?


Well, Starfarers of Catan for starters, but I was talking more broadly about the resources -> VPs model that Catan pioneered and later Euros adopted.


If Settlers of Catan were just about converting resources to VPs I'd like it a lot less. What you build creates a board presence, which is something that most contemporary Euros are sorely lacking. The VPs are something that come naturally from doing the things you want to do. It isn't a game to 100 that someone wins by 3, because a couple of times he made a marginally better move.

I know a guy who says, "if you like Catan, The Castles of Burgundy does the same thing better." And every time it annoys me, because the only thing the games really share is hexagons... but in Castles of Burgundy you're on your own separate little islands!
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Catan is a game I still have an addiction to after I haven't pulled it out for long stretches. Make sense?
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