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Subject: Hivemind + Virus Breeding Ground Question rss

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Dirk DeWester
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Hivemind: Place 1 virus counter on Hivemind when it is installed.
Virus counters on Hivemind are considered to be hosted on all other virus programs for the purposes of card effects (and can be spent as if on them).

VBG: When your turn begins, place 1 virus counter on Virus Breeding Ground.

Click: Move 1 virus counter on Virus Breeding Ground to another card with at least 1 virus counter on it.

Scenario: I have an Imp with no actual counters on it, and a Hive and VBG each with one counter on them. Can I move a counter from the VBG to the Imp?

I would think this is OK but I'm looking for confirmation before using this in a tournament. Use of "hosted on" vs. actually being on the card is area of possible misreading on my end.

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Jack Dietz
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It seems like yes. Neither card has the word "cannot" so the "can" language takes effect and you're good.

EDIT: Why are you making bad plays?
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Chris Wood
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Why not just host the virus token on Hivemind, that way if you decide not to use it for Imp it will be available to use with another virus?

Edit: Yes, you could do that, since Hivemind says virus counters hosted on it are considered to be hosted on all viruses, so for the purpose of VBG, Imp has a virus token on it. Just seems silly to put it on Imp
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William Frank
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Taloncarde wrote:
Why not just host the virus token on Hivemind, that way if you decide not to use it for Imp it will be available to use with another virus?


Perhaps so that if there's a chance to trash a program, the Corp can't remove all of the virus counters at once by killing the Hivemind. Now, myself, I'd still host it on Hivemind, but I see the argument.
 
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Dirk DeWester
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jcdietz03 wrote:
It seems like yes. Neither card has the word "cannot" so the "can" language takes effect and you're good.

EDIT: Why are you making bad plays?


Assuming you are referring to why not just put it on Hive and spend it via Imp, clearly that's the correct play but people don't always make the best plays and I want to be sure I "get" the rule interaction here.
 
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Dirk DeWester
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Beauty of BGG, quick answer to the question and reminders that there are better plays available. Thanks guys!
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Chris Wood
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I don't see any reason why you can't, Imp has 1 virus token on it due to hivemind. So sure, go for it.
 
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FirstName LastName
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Gold for posting card text OP.
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Steven Tu
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Erm, am I reading you guys right?

So if you have a virus token on Hivemind, you can "take a token off" Imp forever, without it ever running out?

Like for example, a Hivemind on a Progenitor = infinite tokens forever regardless of purge?

That doesn't seem right? Am I confused?
 
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Stephen Parkes
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Tuism wrote:
Erm, am I reading you guys right?

So if you have a virus token on Hivemind, you can "take a token off" Imp forever, without it ever running out?

Like for example, a Hivemind on a Progenitor = infinite tokens forever regardless of purge?

That doesn't seem right? Am I confused?

Well, not infinite if you spend the last one. Progenitor only keeps one after a purge, not after spending. If you spend the Hivemind token as an Imp token, it's still spent, isn't it? Would then need to top your Hivemind back up with an Incubator or VBG, I think.
 
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Steven Tu
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StarryVeck wrote:
Tuism wrote:
Erm, am I reading you guys right?

So if you have a virus token on Hivemind, you can "take a token off" Imp forever, without it ever running out?

Like for example, a Hivemind on a Progenitor = infinite tokens forever regardless of purge?

That doesn't seem right? Am I confused?

Well, not infinite if you spend the last one. Progenitor only keeps one after a purge, not after spending. If you spend the Hivemind token as an Imp token, it's still spent, isn't it? Would then need to top your Hivemind back up with an Incubator or VBG, I think.


OHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I've been understanding Hivemind all wrong, I thought it was a case of the token on Hivemind counting as all viruses having one token, when in case every virus has the same virus token as that same one on Hivemind.

So I though, take token off Imp, Hivemind still has one, so Imp still counts as having one.

When in fact it's:

Take one off Imp, it's the one that's on Hivemind, now there's no token on Hivemind or Imp anymore.

GOTCHA. GLAD I NOW UNDERSTAND THAT.
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Andrew Fort
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I think you're still misunderstanding it a bit (or I am)

You have 2 tokens on imp, 1 on hivemind.

You can use imp 3 times by spending 2 imp tokens, and 1 hivemind token.

Hivemind keeps a stash of tokens which can be spent as if its on any other virus card.

So if you have none on imp, and 1 on hivemind, you can use imp to trash something, but you have then consumed the token that was on hivemind, and hivemind would have 0 tokens left on it.

If you have tokens on imp and spend them, they have no effect on tokens on hivemind.
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Steven Tu
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Lomar4976 wrote:
I think you're still misunderstanding it a bit (or I am)

You have 2 tokens on imp, 1 on hivemind.

You can use imp 3 times by spending 2 imp tokens, and 1 hivemind token.

Hivemind keeps a stash of tokens which can be spent as if its on any other virus card.

So if you have none on imp, and 1 on hivemind, you can use imp to trash something, but you have then consumed the token that was on hivemind, and hivemind would have 0 tokens left on it.

If you have tokens on imp and spend them, they have no effect on tokens on hivemind.


Yeah that's how I understood it
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C Spiekerman
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Here is a situation where you would want to move a counter to an empty virus other than Hivemind.

You have Hivemind (2 counters) and Chakana (0 counters), both on Progenitors, and one Virus Breeding Ground (1 counter). According to the way you guys are ruling above, I could move the counter from VBG to Chakana (since Chakana has virtual virus tokens from Hivemind).

Now the Chakana, in effect, has 3 virus tokens and is turned on. The reason you would want to do it this way, is if the corp now purges, after the start of your next turn you will have 1 token on each card. You can now move the VBG counter to Hivemind and get the Chakana turned on again.

If you had placed that initial counter on Hivemind (3 on Hivemend, 0 on Chakana), you would have to wait a turn before turning on Chakana again (allowing a brief scoring window).

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