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Subject: USSR plays kitchen debates for ops... rss

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david funch
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...and USA doesn't control more battle ground countries. Did the event trigger but nothing happened, so it's out of the game? Or did the failer to meet the requirment mean that the event never triggered and is discarded instead?
 
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marc lecours
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IMHO it triggered the event and it gets discarded. It doesn't seem fair for the USA but dems da breaks.
 
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L. Scott Johnson
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pothocket wrote:
...and USA doesn't control more battle ground countries. Did the event trigger but nothing happened, so it's out of the game? Or did the failer to meet the requirment mean that the event never triggered and is discarded instead?


The current ruling on this sort of scenario is that the event is not considered used. It is discarded (not removed from the game).

Jason's ruling on CSW:
http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?14@897.ZsOwcsMXqP6.30@.1dcf...
 
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Greg Forster
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The same ruling (on the card Wargames) is in the FAQ file.

When a card's text begins with the word "if", the event does not trigger unless the listed condition is met.
 
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L. Scott Johnson
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Greg Forster wrote:
The same ruling (on the card Wargames) is in the FAQ file.

When a card's text begins with the word "if", the event does not trigger unless the listed condition is met.


I don't think that's quite true.

Nixon Plays The China Card begins with "if".
Ussuri River Skirmish begins with "if".
 
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david funch
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Nixon plays...: If US possesses the china card, gain 2 VP. Otherwise, US player recieves...

Kitchen Debates: If the US controls more...

You know, it could be argued that in Kitchen Debates it's implied that a 2nd line reads "Otherwise, nothing happens." It would at least be more consistant with the way the rest of the game is played.

Check out Wargames. It's an event that ends the game yet is also removed from play. That doesn't make any sense with what you two are saying. However, it does make sense if an event triggers but does nothing because the "if" condition isn't fulfilled.

So, imho, if USSR plays Kitchen Debates and US doesn't have more battle grounds, it makes more sense to say the event triggered but did nothing since the "if" statement was not true. Thus it's removed from play.
 
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Greg Forster
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I only know what I read in the FAQ file. Under "Wargames," it says:

Quote:
Q. Can Wargames be played as an event for no effect at DEFCON 3-5 to remove it from the deck?

A. Wargames is only considered used when DEFCON is at 2. The "IF" makes the impact of the card conditional. Therefore, it would not be removed if DEFCON was at 3-5.


Notice the second sentence in the answer: "The 'IF' makes the impact of the card conditional."

Now, you could argue that this ruling only says that the word "if" has this effect on the Wargames card, and not on other cards. But in that case, the ruling you linked to on CSW also doesn't apply to Kitchen Debates, since that ruling also was on the Wargames card. So either we have a ruling that Kitchen Debates doesn't trigger when the condition isn't met, or we have no ruling at all.

Nixon Plays the China Card is different, because it states two conditions that trigger the event rather than one. The first condition that can trigger the event is "If the US possesses the China card." The second condition that can trigger the event is "Otherwise."

So I will adjust my previous statement to the following: When a card begins with "IF" the event is only triggered if the listed condition(s) are met.
 
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L. Scott Johnson
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pothocket wrote:
Check out Wargames. It's an event that ends the game yet is also removed from play. That doesn't make any sense with what you two are saying. However, it does make sense if an event triggers but does nothing because the "if" condition isn't fulfilled.


It's not that "we two" are saying it.
We two are merely passing along the official ruling.

You are free to use whatever house rule your house agrees on, of course.
 
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L. Scott Johnson
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Greg Forster wrote:
Notice the second sentence in the answer: "The 'IF' makes the impact of the card conditional."

Now, you could argue that this ruling only says that the word "if" has this effect on the Wargames card, and not on other cards. But in that case, the ruling you linked to on CSW also doesn't apply to Kitchen Debates, since that ruling also was on the Wargames card. So either we have a ruling that Kitchen Debates doesn't trigger when the condition isn't met, or we have no ruling at all.


I agree completely. See my initial response in this thread.

Quote:

Nixon Plays the China Card is different, because it states two conditions that trigger the event rather than one. The first condition that can trigger the event is "If the US possesses the China card." The second condition that can trigger the event is "Otherwise."

So I will adjust my previous statement to the following: When a card begins with "IF" the event is only triggered if the listed condition(s) are met.


That was the main purpose of my response, yes. I would suggest that you include a "one of" in there, too:

When a card begins with "IF", the event is only triggered if one of the listed condition(s) is met.

Or, since the ruling doesn't really match the card text (as evidenced by the awkwardness of the explanation), just list the cards that have had their conditional effects turned into prerequisites:

Kitchen Debates
"One Small Step..."
Star Wars
Wargames
 
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Greg Forster
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Excellent! I bow to your superior rules-lawyerness!
 
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