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Subject: NBN themes other than fast advance? rss

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Scott Roberts
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What themes is NBN good for other than fast advance? I only have one copy of San San City Grid, which seems to make FA not viable.
 
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General Norris
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The only other option that one could consider viable right now is to hit the Runner with Midseason Replacements to either use Psychographics or Scorched Earth. But both will usually have a bit of FA to the side.

NBN has less cards than other corporations so it's pretty much locked into a couple decks right now.
 
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Chris Wood
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This deck is less reliant on San San (they have 2, but you can swap one out)

http://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/15162/pretty-much-n-e-a-r...

Here's a deck designed around tag punishment (And has much better description of the deck in the strategy section)

http://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/14867/moonbase-alpha-v2-1...

This looks to be a single core version of an earlier version of the first deck

http://netrunnerdb.com/en/decklist/14597/n-e-a-r-p-a-d-for-t...

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Brodie
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With 6 3/2s available to them (3x AstroScript Pilot Program, 3x Project Beale), NBN are a very solid "never advance" faction -- slap a card in a remote server and leave it unadvanced for a turn. Is it a PAD Campaign? A Snare! or Edge of World? Or is it an AstroScript that they just scored because you didn't check it? This gets even better when you score an AstroScript, because then it's possible to never-advance a 4/2 and score it.

This still may not be viable for you, if you have only 1 Core Set, since I seem to recall AstroScript is a 2-of in the Core Set.
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Andrew Keddie
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You don't need 3x Astro to Never Advance (NA) but it certainly helps. You can run 2x Astro, 3x Beale, and round out with whatever 3/1 or 4/2 Agendas take your fancy.

Of course, that single SanSan can help you to NA a 4/2 or Fast Advance the 3/2s if you manage to draw it (and the Runner lets it live).

And there's nothing quite like an Edge or World protecting a SanSan.
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Harry Bellamy
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My main deck for a while has been a triple Scorched Earth Making News deck.

The usual suspects are in there - Data Raven, Midseasons, Sea Source etc... Last 3 influence is used on Ice - Eli is probably the best bet. Trying to get Taurus to work to blow up any Plascretes.
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T. Rosen
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charvelsocal wrote:
My main deck for a while has been a triple Scorched Earth Making News deck.

The usual suspects are in there - Data Raven, Midseasons, Sea Source etc... Last 3 influence is used on Ice - Eli is probably the best bet. Trying to get Taurus to work to blow up any Plascretes.


You can use the last 3 influence on three Traffic Accidents now with Order & Chaos out. With Midseasons and Data Raven, you can often find them with multiple tags, then you don't need to draw 2 Scorched, you can also draw 1 Scorched + 1 Traffic Accident to win. I also like Snoop as another piece of ice for the puzzle.
 
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Scott Roberts
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What does it mean to "triple advance a single AstroScript Pilot Program ?"
 
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Andrew Keddie
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Thommy8 wrote:
charvelsocal wrote:
My main deck for a while has been a triple Scorched Earth Making News deck.

The usual suspects are in there - Data Raven, Midseasons, Sea Source etc... Last 3 influence is used on Ice - Eli is probably the best bet. Trying to get Taurus to work to blow up any Plascretes.


You can use the last 3 influence on three Traffic Accidents now with Order & Chaos out. With Midseasons and Data Raven, you can often find them with multiple tags, then you don't need to draw 2 Scorched, you can also draw 1 Scorched + 1 Traffic Accident to win. I also like Snoop as another piece of ice for the puzzle.


Hmm... maybe run Restructured Datapool to lower Agenda Density too? Or do you stick with small Agendas like T.G.T.B.T. to stave of loss to a couple of lucky accesses (and set up Midseasons)?
 
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Andrew Keddie
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scottandkimr wrote:
What does it mean to "triple advance a single AstroScript Pilot Program ?"


Install Astroscript in your remote. Do nothing with it for now, just leave it face down. The Runner has to guess - is this an Agenda, an Asset, an Ambush? Who knows?

Next turn, assuming it's still installed, you spend your whole turn advancing three times (or triple-advance) to score the Agenda (as its advancement requirement is 3). Boom, you just scored an incredibly powerful Agenda. Congrats.

Next turn, install another face-down card in that remote. Round 2, Runner.
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Scott Roberts
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Cool, thanks
 
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Lluluien
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I think you would probably like this thread. The specific card choices and relation to the metagame is dated because I haven't played much during the last couple of cycles and correspondingly haven't kept the thread up-to-date, but the concept is still sound. Sound enough that several other players and I are currently discussing an important new addition (Space Camp) to the Jinteki version of this in another thread.

NBN Never Advance
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Andrew Brown
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Agent Archer wrote:
With 6 3/2s available to them (3x AstroScript Pilot Program, 3x Project Beale), NBN are a very solid "never advance" faction -- slap a card in a remote server and leave it unadvanced for a turn. Is it a PAD Campaign? A Snare! or Edge of World? Or is it an AstroScript that they just scored because you didn't check it? This gets even better when you score an AstroScript, because then it's possible to never-advance a 4/2 and score it.

This still may not be viable for you, if you have only 1 Core Set, since I seem to recall AstroScript is a 2-of in the Core Set.
this is a solid strategy and after reading lluluien's thread, it's by far my favourite way to pilot NBN (or any corp for that matter, at the moment at least)

i usually run 3x NAPD Contract, 3x Project Beale, 3x Astroscript and 2x some 3/1s like Gila Hands Arcology, TGTBT, or License Acquisition
Making News is a really popular choice for the last 2 since it can be scored out of hand and can also be advanced on a turn after it wasn't installed with a click left to take advantage of the extra tags

some other solid traps are things like Reversed Accounts and GRNDL Refinery, which can be advanced twice on the following turn and triggered, gaining a bunch of credits or costing the runner credits

lluluien wrote:
I think you would probably like this thread. The specific card choices and relation to the metagame is dated because I haven't played much during the last couple of cycles and correspondingly haven't kept the thread up-to-date, but the concept is still sound. Sound enough that several other players and I are currently discussing an important new addition (Space Camp) to the Jinteki version of this in another thread.

NBN Never Advance

seriously, take a look at the thread. it's very long but very worth the read.
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Steven Tu
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I don't really consider Never Advance *not* Fast Advance

We really need more NBN cards and possibly that big box to come soon. I'm looking forward to genuine tag (not bag) strategies, or psychographics jank. Shoot The Moon is nuts, and great that it doesn't fit FA.

Also, a "economy control" style of NBN is also possible by dropping piles of stuff for the runner to trash. Though that is countered by Whizzard and/or Imps. Also, that's a way to economically get ahead slowly, but not a way to win. FA still has to feature.
 
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Andrew Keddie
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The very definition of Fast-Advance is that the card never stays in the remote through a Runner's turn. If you're leaving the Agenda installed in a remote, you're not fast-advancing the Agenda.

Now that said, many Never-advance decks still use Fast-advance tactics to close the game out towards the end, but unlike something like NEH AstroBiotics, you're not looking to FA every Agenda.
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Steven Tu
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CommissarFeesh wrote:
The very definition of Fast-Advance is that the card never stays in the remote through a Runner's turn. If you're leaving the Agenda installed in a remote, you're not fast-advancing the Agenda.

Now that said, many Never-advance decks still use Fast-advance tactics to close the game out towards the end, but unlike something like NEH AstroBiotics, you're not looking to FA every Agenda.


There are only very specific decks that never runs a remote. Those are purpose built FA decks, to be sure, but there are many FA decks that does run a remote. Sticking an Astroscript in them doesn't automatically make it a Never Advance either.

Anyway, my definition of FA isn't as narrow as "never build a remote and FA every point", so it's just different from your definition of the same word
 
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Andrew Keddie
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Tuism wrote:
CommissarFeesh wrote:
The very definition of Fast-Advance is that the card never stays in the remote through a Runner's turn. If you're leaving the Agenda installed in a remote, you're not fast-advancing the Agenda.

Now that said, many Never-advance decks still use Fast-advance tactics to close the game out towards the end, but unlike something like NEH AstroBiotics, you're not looking to FA every Agenda.


There are only very specific decks that never runs a remote. Those are purpose built FA decks, to be sure, but there are many FA decks that does run a remote. Sticking an Astroscript in them doesn't automatically make it a Never Advance either.

Anyway, my definition of FA isn't as narrow as "never build a remote and FA every point", so it's just different from your definition of the same word


It's not 'never use a remote' so much as 'never leave your Agenda IN the remote'. You probably DO want a remote in face to house your SanSan, but just don't want to leave your Agenda in there where the Runner might steal it.

And I agree, sticking your Astro in the remote isn't enough to define 'never advance', but I'll just leave Llullien's thread to explain that archetype better than I could.
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Steven Tu
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CommissarFeesh wrote:
Tuism wrote:
CommissarFeesh wrote:
The very definition of Fast-Advance is that the card never stays in the remote through a Runner's turn. If you're leaving the Agenda installed in a remote, you're not fast-advancing the Agenda.

Now that said, many Never-advance decks still use Fast-advance tactics to close the game out towards the end, but unlike something like NEH AstroBiotics, you're not looking to FA every Agenda.


There are only very specific decks that never runs a remote. Those are purpose built FA decks, to be sure, but there are many FA decks that does run a remote. Sticking an Astroscript in them doesn't automatically make it a Never Advance either.

Anyway, my definition of FA isn't as narrow as "never build a remote and FA every point", so it's just different from your definition of the same word


It's not 'never use a remote' so much as 'never leave your Agenda IN the remote'. You probably DO want a remote in face to house your SanSan, but just don't want to leave your Agenda in there where the Runner might steal it.

And I agree, sticking your Astro in the remote isn't enough to define 'never advance', but I'll just leave Llullien's thread to explain that archetype better than I could.


I understand all that. All I was saying is that to me, using FA isn't restricted to running FA all game long. You can FA after you rushed out agendas in a remote, you can start off with FA then close out with glacier, or whatever. Those strategies can still employ FA and will still be affected by FA counters.

Guess the difference is that I was talking about strategies, whereas you were talking about entire decks.
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Andrew Keddie
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Tuism wrote:
Guess the difference is that I was talking about strategies, whereas you were talking about entire decks.


Yeah, I think that's where we're getting crossed. I actually think hybrid-strategies like you're describing are probably the strongest. Even a Fast-Advance deck doesn't necessarily Fast-Advance every agenda it scores, but an Agenda that sits in a remote wasn't scored through Fast-advancing. That's all I was trying to say

So yeah, a deck that scores entirely through Never-advance is probably not all that common (and pretty much unheard of in NBN) - let's be honest, once you have an Astro scored (through any means, FA/NA or even slow-advance), the FA train has left the station and the race is on.
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Peter Hopkins
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Some people (including me!) have been running a Grail ice deck out of TWIY*, usually with Midway Station Grid. You can hold more Grail ice in hand with the increased size, and you have lots of draw in faction to hit it. Plus, the reduced deck size means you're more likely to hit a Grail on any draw.

It's not been *super* successful for me, but it's great fun! Servers can be incredibly expensive to get in to.

Also, I've seen people have success with Taxing builds, Punitive Counterstrike decks (my friend won several tournaments with an Astro-less PC deck), and heavy asset builds. I keep meaning to experiment more with an 'information war' style NBN, using their hand-revealing mechanics, and I hope it's something that gets more support in the NBN big box. Ah, the dream of a turn one Invasion of Privacy against Andy...
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Andrew Keddie
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unitled wrote:
Ah, the dream of a turn one Invasion of Privacy against Andy...


Make sure to Sweeps Week first
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Scott Roberts
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lluluien wrote:
I think you would probably like this thread. The specific card choices and relation to the metagame is dated because I haven't played much during the last couple of cycles and correspondingly haven't kept the thread up-to-date, but the concept is still sound. Sound enough that several other players and I are currently discussing an important new addition (Space Camp) to the Jinteki version of this in another thread.

NBN Never Advance

That deck looks like it would be a lot of fun. I am going to give it a swing.
 
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Zak Jarvis
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Tuism wrote:
We really need more NBN cards and possibly that big box to come soon. I'm looking forward to genuine tag (not bag) strategies...


Do you not think that 'Information Overload' is almost a viable tag strategy in itself? Especially given that it's downside is a reasonably pricey rez cost (for an ICE that you want to keep paying to boost the trace), which synergises perfectly with 'Shoot the Moon'.
 
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Steven Tu
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popeye09 wrote:
Tuism wrote:
We really need more NBN cards and possibly that big box to come soon. I'm looking forward to genuine tag (not bag) strategies...


Do you not think that 'Information Overload' is almost a viable tag strategy in itself? Especially given that it's downside is a reasonably pricey rez cost (for an ICE that you want to keep paying to boost the trace), which synergises perfectly with 'Shoot the Moon'.


I think it may be a piece in that puzzle, but it's certainly not all there yet. Or maybe it is and it's just not being explored for all the FA goodness that's blinding everyone.

Basically, it's like where criminals were at before their big box came out, I think
 
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Andrew Maier
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I've been running NBN non-Biotic for a while, and tagging seems to be very strong. Given how good NBN is at fast advance all my decks have been employing that as a strategy, but games play very differently to Astro-Biotics.

You can either go the Midseason route and start going crazy with Beale, Psychographics and Information Overload (Information Overload is great because post-Midseason runners tend to go all out on RnD to try and lock you out of the tools you need to close the game out. Information Overload makes that a very expensive proposition), or play a deck that uses ICE and ChiLo City Grid to get the runner to tag themselves. I used to do the former with great success (1 loss at our Store Championship due to agenda flood) but am switching to the latter because runner economies being so good now make the midseason play harder. Making News turns ICE like Hunter into a heavy tax, and ChiLo coupled with Viper is even worse. The runner will either slow down and clear the tags, or get frustrated and start floating them. Either way hurts the runner a lot, since slowing down lets you get your SanSan out (or even just score an Astro behind ICE, since they'll be much poorer) and floating the tags turns on things like Closed Accounts, Psychographics, Information Overload and Scorched Earth, all of which are super nasty.

I'm still experimenting with this new tag-on-the-runner's-turn deck, but I'm excited so far
 
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