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DC Comics Deck-Building Game: Crisis Expansion Pack 1» Forums » General

Subject: Pandora rss

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Adam Krump
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Anybody come up with a passable Pandora yet?

I tried giving her the ability to Destroy villains for half cost, and buying Destroyed Villains for FULL cost. Reflecting her accidental releasing of all the sins and trying to subdue them while they are in "custody."

The Second version gave her a hand limit of straight-up 6. This one was scrapped after about 5 hands for obvious reason.

Anymore ideas? I've tried other ideas that were even more hideous.

-Aysez
 
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Aysez wrote:
Anybody come up with a passable Pandora yet?

I tried giving her the ability to Destroy villains for half cost, and buying Destroyed Villains for FULL cost. Reflecting her accidental releasing of all the sins and trying to subdue them while they are in "custody."

The Second version gave her a hand limit of straight-up 6. This one was scrapped after about 5 hands for obvious reason.

Anymore ideas? I've tried other ideas that were even more hideous.

-Aysez


Do you mean a design for an oversized hero card of Pandora?
 
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Adam Krump
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Exactly. I should've been clearer in my original post. Per the DC Wiki she's extremely skilled in all forms of combat, armed and unarmed, is truly immortal, among boosted traits.
 
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Aysez wrote:
Exactly. I should've been clearer in my original post. Per the DC Wiki she's extremely skilled in all forms of combat, armed and unarmed, is truly immortal, among boosted traits.


I would try to focus more on the idea of spirits being released etc; pretty much all of the DC characters are strong and skilled so it's much more interesting to reflect what's special about each hero when designing their card.

For Pandora, there's a precedent set since she's present as a Hero card in Forever Evil, as well as her Box/Skull making an appearance as an Equipment. When you play Pandora, you add a card to the line-up then get +1 Power for each different costed card there. Her Box reveals the top card of the main deck, then puts cards into the line-up equal to the revealed card's cost. I'm thinking the best route is to keep her interacting with the line-up. Here are a few ideas, just spitballing:

- Once during each of your turns, you may pay 3. If you do, destroy a card in the line-up and replace it. That card costs 3 less to buy this turn.
I like this one, it's funky and gambly like Shazam but can also be used to deprive your opponents of cards from the line-up they'd want. It's weaker than Shazam (probably a good thing) but more flexible.

- Once during each of your turns, if there are four different card types in the line-up, +4/5.
Three different card types is just too easy to trigger in the early game for a big boost, so I went with four and made the reward pretty high. Direct Synergy with both Pandora cards, though traditionally Pandora is more concerned with card cost than type. Early game it's weaker than Green Lantern, but is potentially stronger late game.

- Once during each of your turns, you may discard a card. If you do, you pay 2 less to gain cards from the line-up with the same cost as the discarded card.
I think this is fun and balanced. A lot like Green Arrow but less restrictive and harder to trigger effectively.
 
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Adam Krump
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PopeJP wrote:
Aysez wrote:
Exactly. I should've been clearer in my original post. Per the DC Wiki she's extremely skilled in all forms of combat, armed and unarmed, is truly immortal, among boosted traits.


I would try to focus more on the idea of spirits being released etc; pretty much all of the DC characters are strong and skilled so it's much more interesting to reflect what's special about each hero when designing their card.

For Pandora, there's a precedent set since she's present as a Hero card in Forever Evil, as well as her Box/Skull making an appearance as an Equipment. When you play Pandora, you add a card to the line-up then get +1 Power for each different costed card there. Her Box reveals the top card of the main deck, then puts cards into the line-up equal to the revealed card's cost. I'm thinking the best route is to keep her interacting with the line-up. Here are a few ideas, just spitballing:

- Once during each of your turns, you may pay 3. If you do, destroy a card in the line-up and replace it. That card costs 3 less to buy this turn.
I like this one, it's funky and gambly like Shazam but can also be used to deprive your opponents of cards from the line-up they'd want. It's weaker than Shazam (probably a good thing) but more flexible.

- Once during each of your turns, if there are four different card types in the line-up, +4/5.
Three different card types is just too easy to trigger in the early game for a big boost, so I went with four and made the reward pretty high. Direct Synergy with both Pandora cards, though traditionally Pandora is more concerned with card cost than type. Early game it's weaker than Green Lantern, but is potentially stronger late game.

- Once during each of your turns, you may discard a card. If you do, you pay 2 less to gain cards from the line-up with the same cost as the discarded card.
I think this is fun and balanced. A lot like Green Arrow but less restrictive and harder to trigger effectively.


I like the way you think! I think I'll try the third, first, and second reccomendations in that order. I think MY issue was trying to fit in more Mythological Pandora into the card, since all the sources I have make it pretty clear she IS the Grecco-Roman Pandora of myth.
 
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I'd probably go in that order too. I'm not really crazy about the second card, it's just too hard to balance. Three different card types is too easy and four is too inconsistent. I guess the benefit is that in the very early game you can luck into some crazy boost, but I don't know if this game needs any more luck elements than it already has.

Edit: If you find the first build to be underwhelming, you could try it out without the once per turn restriction. Shazam doesn't have one, so why not?

It's easy to be drawn to over-complication when designing cards. The trick is to do something that hasn't been done before without overdoing it. Particularly in the case of DCDB, I think it's important that the oversized heroes have synergy with their main deck counterparts.
 
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Adam Krump
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PopeJP wrote:
I'd probably go in that order too. I'm not really crazy about the second card, it's just too hard to balance. Three different card types is too easy and four is too inconsistent. I guess the benefit is that in the very early game you can luck into some crazy boost, but I don't know if this game needs any more luck elements than it already has.

Edit: If you find the first build to be underwhelming, you could try it out without the once per turn restriction. Shazam doesn't have one, so why not?

It's easy to be drawn to over-complication when designing cards. The trick is to do something that hasn't been done before without overdoing it. Particularly in the case of DCDB, I think it's important that the oversized heroes have synergy with their main deck counterparts.


Indeed. It is way easy to over design a Main.Our group is trying our hand at making new Mains for the heck of it, but some of the existing characters are wackily balanced. Like Constantine kind of needs his Signature Trenchcoat. Or Bane "needing" Venom cards, etc.

Now the next trick is building "The Doctor" for my GF. I'm pretty sure he's been in a cross-over at some point, so it should be Kosher. For him I'm thinking of switching an equip in his hand for one in the line up OR letting him pay x POWER so he can rearrange what's coming in the main deck.
 
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As the heroes stand now, I'd say the only one who's really underpowered is Batgirl. In my playgroup we've extended her ability to ALL starters and it still wasn't good enough. I find Bane to be one of the most powerful characters in FE, regularly turning Kicks into +4 power so I can grab strong cards very early. Constantine is much the same, though less consistent in the early game. A great trick to make him better: on your second turn, after you've bought a card, your discard pile should be your five starters (since the five from your second hand are still in play) and the two cards you bought. Activate his ability now, causing you to have to shuffle. Your third turn is gonna be significantly above average.

For The Doctor, I think you're definitely on the right track with messing with the main deck. It's generally used as a representation of time in the game so it goes nicely. Figuring out a balanced ability that will actually be useful could be tricky, though.
 
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Adam Krump
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As for Batgirl, how about letting her discard weaknesses as well? Or have her punches +2 power, good at the beginning, not so much later.

-Adam
PS I'm trying out option "A" blow up a card, and it's looking pretty good. It also allows you to deny opponents cards.
 
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Aysez wrote:
As for Batgirl, how about letting her discard weaknesses as well? Or have her punches +2 power, good at the beginning, not so much later.

-Adam
PS I'm trying out option "A" blow up a card, and it's looking pretty good. It also allows you to deny opponents cards.


We actually tried that with Batgirl first. I did very well in that game and there was concern from one of the wet towels in our playgroup that it was too good, even though I didn't even win. So I'd say go for it, it would make her a lot more playable. I hate having to take her out of the hero pool because she's just so bad that nobody would ever pick her. Punches being +2 is waaaay too good; her opening hands would suddenly be +4 at worst and a terrifying +10 at best. Having landed a very early Green Arrow super hero card in Forever Evil pretty early, I can tell you that Punches being Kicks is a lot better even later game than you'd think.

I think option A for Pandora was the most interesting and potentially strongest. Keep an eye out for the card denial being too good. My thinking is that the fact that her ability never nets her cards or power it ought to even out okay.
 
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