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Subject: Myth Journeyman - Week1 rss

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Alex
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As promised the other day in my Pre-Announcement thread, here's the first weekly installment around the upcoming Myth crowdfunding project simply called Myth:Journeyman.

I chose to place the content into a Blog instead of burying it in the forums. The blog itself can be found here.

Please post discussion comments here.

I will follow-up next week with another Blog entry regarding Commanders.

Hope you all enjoy.

-Alex


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Marcus Taylor
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I - guardedly - welcome the news, Alex.

The art looks beautiful, but that's always been the case.

The concept of an Egyptian-style expansion sounds great.

But - while I know you don't have a say in what the Myth guys do - please PLEASE let us hope that they actually playtest this. I don't want to pick up a new boss or quest and think 'how on earth does THIS work?'

I think this could be a good time for MegaCon to show they have learned some lessons.
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Michael Callahan
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The stuff looks really cool,...

It's a unique art style that I love in this game.

Looking forward to more.
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Jeremy Steward
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I like it.

I like the idea of the minions protecting the captain, combined with the auto-hit, these guys will be a challenge. I'm looking forward to it.
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Jared Ridinger
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Liking this so far; the minion/captain mechanic is something different and will certainly bring a new challenge level when a Captain hits the tile. Can't wait to see more.
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Alex
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Marcus the Ready wrote:
But - while I know you don't have a say in what the Myth guys do - please PLEASE let us hope that they actually playtest this. I don't want to pick up a new boss or quest and think 'how on earth does THIS work?'


Marcus. Somehow I missed this the other day. I'd really like to take an opportunity to address this playtest topic.

Myth:Journeyman is being playtested. It is being tested by people that know how to play Myth and blind tested by those that do not.

As things progress, I may be able to share some of my personal experiences in this area. At this point, however, I wanted to let you (and the community) know that playtesting is happening.

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Marcus Taylor
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That's good, Alex. That's what we all want to hear.

Because I think most of these issues happened because MegaCon were just too close to their project. Friends, family (and pets!) are too close to the creators to be objective. I've no doubt they know how to play the game, but this has to be communicated to us. And frankly, the original game didn't do that very well (or why else would they be reprinting cards and the rulebook?).

Games like this need to be given to people who will give honest critique and thoroughly road test it, find and fix the problems before it goes out to customers.

Good for us, because we get a game that's easier to play without a ton of house-ruling. Good for MegaCon because they get praise instead of brickbats and angry protest. I'm sure that's what we both want.

Hopefully this will actually be easier, because it's an expansion and hopefully by now the issues in the original game have been ironed out.
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Brian Hunt
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Playtesting with new folks is really important - people are scared of Myth because of the reputation it gained in the early stages of release (and it can still be confusing to those of us that have played it a fair bit).

Although this is an expansion, presumably the idea is to sell more copies of the base set on the back of expansions? In which case the base set needs to be cleaned up in terms of making it easier to get going. A lot of work has gone into the hero cards to make them more consistent, which is great, but the same thing needs to be done with the minion, mini-boss, boss and the new Commander cards too. The quests too, but these are being talked about in another thread.

Anyway, I am really excited to see what the new project is going to give us and I will definitely be pledging.

If you are willing to persevere with Myth, beneath the hard exterior is a brilliant game, a game which ranks as one of my favourites of all time. The problem is that many people do not want to persevere, which is a reasonable attitude these days.
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Magic Pink
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All I want to know is if they're offering corrected, printed cards. If they are, they'll have my money.
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Mathue Faulkner
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BrianJohnHunt wrote:

Although this is an expansion, presumably the idea is to sell more copies of the base set on the back of expansions? In which case the base set needs to be cleaned up in terms of making it easier to get going. A lot of work has gone into the hero cards to make them more consistent, which is great, but the same thing needs to be done with the minion, mini-boss, boss and the new Commander cards too. The quests too, but these are being talked about in another thread.

Don't forget the Traps!
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Alex
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BrianJohnHunt wrote:
Although this is an expansion, presumably the idea is to sell more copies of the base set on the back of expansions?


At this time base Myth will not be part of the Myth:Journeyman KS. Anything available in retail is not a candidate for inclusion at this point.

Magic Pink wrote:
All I want to know is if they're offering corrected, printed cards. If they are, they'll have my money.


Yes the corrected cards will be offered in the KS at cost.

mfaulk80 wrote:
Don't forget the Traps!


They are working on this. Not sure how much I can share on this topic, so I'll just say more details to come.
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Brian Hunt
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MythMod wrote:
BrianJohnHunt wrote:
Although this is an expansion, presumably the idea is to sell more copies of the base set on the back of expansions?


At this time base Myth will not be part of the Myth:Journeyman KS. Anything available in retail is not a candidate for inclusion at this point.



I was assuming that by adding more expansions they may be looking to get people to grab a copy of Myth at retail - i.e. generally trying to expand their consumer base beyond those that already own Myth. If the word gets out that things have improved, this will have a positive effect on sales.

I sold two copies of Myth from the shop and they were both returned un-opened. The reasons for both returns were the same, in each case the buyer was worried by the negative responses on BGG and elsewhere and decided that they did not want to invest a lot of time in figuring out the game. At the time, I was still waiting for my personal KS copy to arrive so could not argue either way! Given what I know now, I would have attempted to persuade at least one of these customers otherwise, but I hadn't played the game myself at that point.

Basically what I am saying is that there needs to be a positive drive during the next Kickstarter to alter perception that 'Myth is a mess'.
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noah caldwell
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I've reprinten all the base cards using print studio so I don't need those . So will I just be able to buy the equipment cards or do I have to order the whole bunch at once . That would suck!
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Andi Anonymous
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BrianJohnHunt wrote:

Basically what I am saying is that there needs to be a positive drive during the next Kickstarter to alter perception that 'Myth is a mess'.


You can't alter the perception because it IS a mess.

I played over 20 sessions, uncounted solo sessions, invested nearly 100 hours learning the game/reading boards/unofficial rulebook/updated all my german cards by hand ... hell I even painted half of my captain pledge. I might say I am a fan.

So I dare to think that I got all the (blur) rules by now but still something unclear is happening nearly every session. This gets on my nerves and totally kills the drive of the game. And I am not even talking about the quest cards ...

Before starting a new KS give us a decent rulebook and fix ALL cards. Before that I don't think you should start building anything on this wobbly foundation.
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Brian Hunt
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Credit where it's due though - they have done a great job with the hero cards, and as long as they continue along this path then general perception can be altered.

They can't do extra content without re-visiting the original rules though and ensuring that future copies of the base game are printed with all the amendments (rules and cards) made to date.

It's true that every time I play, I still come across something that needs an answer (and that's without the Quest cards in play), but I am comfortable enough with the game to wing it and try and figure out the 'official way' later. The main thing for me is that the Hero Cards play smoothly now and are consistent across the characters.
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Michael Callahan
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yeah,.... I think once the redone rule book is out,.....

we can see if the feedback is that people understand the game with just the rule book.

The card changes are great! So I'm hopeful that the book will follow suit. If the new rule book has a good terms glossary, a good structure, and is easier to find answers to questions; I think that people will come back.

Re: cards,..... I'm sure that the updated card packs will be all together just like the alternate language packs that they had for the KS. So I doubt that you'd be able to buy just the items. But; if they are truly "at cost" they price should be very reasonable!
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MM
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BrianJohnHunt wrote:
Basically what I am saying is that there needs to be a positive drive during the next Kickstarter to alter perception that 'Myth is a mess'.


I'm curious ... what do you think they need to do? There's what, 3 weeks left before the launch? If you were a member of their team, what would you do to "alter perceptions"?
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Brian Hunt
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Mistermannindy wrote:
BrianJohnHunt wrote:
Basically what I am saying is that there needs to be a positive drive during the next Kickstarter to alter perception that 'Myth is a mess'.


I'm curious ... what do you think they need to do? There's what, 3 weeks left before the launch? If you were a member of their team, what would you do to "alter perceptions"?


It's mainly to show that with the changes made, the game is playable out of the box without having to spend a whole lot of time on forums working out how to actually play. If people jump onto the Kickstarter and then start to post about 'how things have changed', then perhaps the overall perception of Myth being a tough game to crack will start to recede.

So, if I were them, as well as promoting new additions to Myth, I would be publisising the changes made to the core set to improve the out of the box playability.

Alex has said the the new KS will not contain any items available at retail. Personally I think this is a mistake. With new cards, a new ruleset and a better understanding of how the original game is perceived, this is a perfect opportunity to push the base game again along with the expansion. I have jumped on many a Kickstarter for an expansion to a game to also pick up the base game which I may have missed the first time around. I know the logistics of the firs KS caused them problems, so perhaps this is the reason why they are just sticking to expansion items in the new KS.


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MM
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BrianJohnHunt wrote:
Alex has said the the new KS will not contain any items available at retail. Personally I think this is a mistake. With new cards, a new ruleset and a better understanding of how the original game is perceived, this is a perfect opportunity to push the base game again along with the expansion. I have jumped on many a Kickstarter for an expansion to a game to also pick up the base game which I may have missed the first time around. I know the logistics of the firs KS caused them problems, so perhaps this is the reason why they are just sticking to expansion items in the new KS.


Well, there is time for them to change their minds for sure. Not sure why they couldn't include the "Myth 1.0" content and sell for same price as retail (presuming they don't want to undercut their retail partners). You sound like you're one of those partners, so your opinion might carry more weight. Have you PM'd Kenny over on MegaCon's site?

Maybe they have contractual agreements in place preventing them from including in KS? I don't know...
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Brian Hunt
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Mistermannindy wrote:
BrianJohnHunt wrote:
Alex has said the the new KS will not contain any items available at retail. Personally I think this is a mistake. With new cards, a new ruleset and a better understanding of how the original game is perceived, this is a perfect opportunity to push the base game again along with the expansion. I have jumped on many a Kickstarter for an expansion to a game to also pick up the base game which I may have missed the first time around. I know the logistics of the firs KS caused them problems, so perhaps this is the reason why they are just sticking to expansion items in the new KS.


Well, there is time for them to change their minds for sure. Not sure why they couldn't include the "Myth 1.0" content and sell for same price as retail (presuming they don't want to undercut their retail partners). You sound like you're one of those partners, so your opinion might carry more weight. Have you PM'd Kenny over on MegaCon's site?

Maybe they have contractual agreements in place preventing them from including in KS? I don't know...


I am just a retailer, not a partner, but yes, I have expressed my thoughts to them directly!

My concerns are mainly as a gamer though - I think this game is great (and has big potential), but it has taken blood, sweat and tears to get this far!
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MM
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You know, having thought about this a little more, I am changing my mind. They have Myth on the store website right now. If someone wants it (or expansion elements), they can order it right now (or during the KS). No need to wait for the Journeyman content to arrive. Keeps the fulfillment clean and simple.

I don't want to see them complicate the Journeyman KS with a bunch of options - especially options that add complexity to distribution and fulfillment.

This KS should be all about Keeping it Simple.

There, I feel better.
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MM
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BrianJohnHunt wrote:
My concerns are mainly as a gamer though - I think this game is great (and has big potential)....


I completely agree. Potential for what's in the box(es) and potential in whatever we (the community) can dream up. I think that aspect of the game is what I find most compelling.

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Mathue Faulkner
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Mistermannindy wrote:

This KS should be all about Keeping it Simple.

thumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsup
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Donny Behne
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Mistermannindy wrote:
This KS should be all about Keeping it Simple not screwing it up.


Translated that for you.
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