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Subject: Complexity comparison rss

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Andy Kelly
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I've played both Hammer of the Scots, which I liked, and Rommel in the Desert, which I hated. I think Hammer of the Scots my represent a game that is near the limit on my rules tolerance. So of these two, which on is Bobby Lee closer to?

Thanks
 
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Steve Herron
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I have it but not Hammer but I would say Hammer because I have Eastfront and Bobby Lee is simpiler than Eastfront.
 
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Donald Wilbur III
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Well, size isn't everything but...
Size of Rules PDFs:
Hammer of the Scots - 508KB
Rommel in the Desert - 1.7MB
Bobby Lee/Sam Grant Combined Rules - 675KB

Looks like Bobby Lee comes closer to HotS than RitD.
 
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Donald Wilbur III
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Another size comparison

HotS: 56 blocks
RitD: 100 blocks
Bobby Lee: 84 blocks
 
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Doug Adams
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Bobby Lee is a little more complex than Hammer of the Scots, but not much.
 
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Niko Ruf
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I own HotS and just got Bobby Lee. BL is more complicated as it has supply line tracking and elaborate battle rules. The combined rules for Bobby Lee and Sam Grant are 30 pages instead of the 8 pages of HotS, although several are tables only (mostly for scenario set-up, not used in-game).

Like all Columbia block games I have tried so far, BL seems to require time to learn how to play properly. So far, we haven't figured out how the USA can win at all. However, during my first few games of HotS, the Scots also couldn't seem to win. Both are games that need some initial investment before you can appreciate them, but for me it has been worthwhile.
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Andy Kelly
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Thanks, everyone.

After reading the Columbia games geeklist that I stumbled across last night about five minutes after posting the question, I had crossed this off the list. But what you're telling me puts me back on the fence.

The supply line thing may be a deal-breaker, though since that was my number 1 frustration with Rommel.
 
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Ethan McKinney
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"Amateurs talk strategy; professionals talk logisitics."
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Jens Hoppe
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I'd agree that Bobby Lee is closer to HOTS, complexity-wise. The tactical battle rules are easily learned and very intuitive. The supply rules - at least in the 1st edition - were not very complex either.

Bobby Lee is still my favorite game from Columbia.
 
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Niko Ruf
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muppaphone wrote:
The supply line thing may be a deal-breaker, though since that was my number 1 frustration with Rommel.


It is also the thing I like the least about BL, since it is so easy to forget. Unfortunately, I don't see how you could drop it as it has a huge impact on the strategy in this game.
 
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stuart cudahy
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I've won bobby lee as yanks! Lost it too and had the sneaking suspicion my non wargamish opponent was cheating before i read up on civil war history and learnt a frontal assault on richmond is inadvisable when weakly defended petersburg was an option! lol.
I think this is a good game. I have a problem with HotS because i feel colunbia has decided to go for a generic, non specific feel with their games! Simpler is not always better! But the market must disagree? lol

cheers Stu
 
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Niko Ruf
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I've played a few games solitaire recently, and found it much more to my liking. As with all CG titles, you need a few games to learn how to navigate the map. Also, using tokens to mark which units are in supply helps a lot.

Unfortunately, the game is still too long for me to find an opponent and play "as it was meant to be".
 
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