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Subject: Your Eater defence of choice rss

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Bradley Galbraith
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Lower Sackville
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Legate_Damar wrote:
Even on the off chance you do trash an Eater, you need to remember that MaxX decks live and die on recursion, so your "devastating blow" is only a temporary setback at best.
This is why I kept thinking that Will-o'-the-Wisp might be a good counter to the Eater madness. Bottom of Anarch's deck is the worst spot for them to dig for an essential card... but it's nowhere near as effective against Criminals with [Special Order or Shaper with goddamn everything to search their deck.
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PaxCecilia wrote:
Legate_Damar wrote:
Even on the off chance you do trash an Eater, you need to remember that MaxX decks live and die on recursion, so your "devastating blow" is only a temporary setback at best.
This is why I kept thinking that Will-o'-the-Wisp might be a good counter to the Eater madness. Bottom of Anarch's deck is the worst spot for them to dig for an essential card... but it's nowhere near as effective against Criminals with [Special Order or Shaper with goddamn everything to search their deck.


My eater deck runs 2x special order, so, meh. But also blackmail because its Valencia, so I don't really even care about crisium grid. Eater is the last resort for that deck anyways. Mimic too, so swordsman is kind of a meh answer as well.

As far as paying for it, anarch voicepad has enough money to pay for eater all day long, so long as you're eating all the stuff to keep the long term costs down.

---

Basically what I'm saying is: go faster as corp.
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Yoshi
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Legate_Damar wrote:
Snipafist wrote:
Embery wrote:


Most Eater decks will be running Mimics and/or Femmes to get around Swordsman, so I'm not convinced it's a great solution. Caprice Nisei and Crisium Grid are the better solutions overall, but the space ice and Wraparound are good ice.

Once Turing comes out, it will further slow down Eater-based decks.


I point and laugh at Swordsman. That's what the Mimic and Forked are for.

Even on the off chance you do trash an Eater, you need to remember that MaxX decks live and die on recursion, so your "devastating blow" is only a temporary setback at best. Also, any good MaxX player will be holding onto an extra copy of it or some form of recursion, and will be actively searching for the Swordsman.

Snipafist is correct - Caprice and Crisium Grid are better anti-Eater tech. Even the Crisium is only going to work for so long, as most decks have a way to get to it that doesn't rely on AI breakers, such as Quest Completed. Heck, Wraparound is more devastating against Eater than Swordsman is.

Swordsman is not good and never will be.


While it might be true that a good player know to play around Swordsman, Swordsman is still a threat, a tempo hit and a threat. Much in the same way people used to say that good players don't get flatlined by PE or know to not get Scorched. It is like saying that Snare! is no good in decks since it will only get you the win against bad players. Even the best players can make mistakes, and while you do not build your deck betting on that "off chance" the threat makes a difference, a player seeing a Swordsman will make them play around it, costing tempo. In top level matches that tempo difference can be what makes or breaks a win.

I would not say force Swordsman into every deck, but if you can fit one in, sure it can be useful.

That Wraparound is more of a hit I have found not to be so, most times it will end one run, get Knifed and ending up "costing less" than playing around Swordsman. Not sayong Wrap is a bad choice, just that one could argue in the same way for/against both cards.

Like I said, I put 2 Wraparound and 1 Swordsman into my ETF that won an SC, and in the one game I was up against MaxX/Eater/Keyhole they were all very good, and the combination more so than each part by itself, since it forces the runner to find multiple solutions to the different problems.

So my tip would be, have a couple of different "counters", each additional instance is better than the sum of the parts, but don't force counters into a deck, don't sacrifice the deck just to fight "one threat".
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Neil G
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Legate_Damar wrote:


Snipafist is correct - Caprice and Crisium Grid are better anti-Eater tech. Even the Crisium is only going to work for so long, as most decks have a way to get to it that doesn't rely on AI breakers, such as Quest Completed. Heck, Wraparound is more devastating against Eater than Swordsman is.

Swordsman is not good and never will be.


Good luck triggering Quest Completed when there's a Crisium Grid on R&D...
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Steven Tu
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Vapo wrote:
Legate_Damar wrote:


Snipafist is correct - Caprice and Crisium Grid are better anti-Eater tech. Even the Crisium is only going to work for so long, as most decks have a way to get to it that doesn't rely on AI breakers, such as Quest Completed. Heck, Wraparound is more devastating against Eater than Swordsman is.

Swordsman is not good and never will be.


Good luck triggering Quest Completed when there's a Crisium Grid on R&D...


Has there been a ruling on this? It still was a successful run, and Quest Completed wasn't "listening" to anything earlier in the turn before it was played.

In fact, if Crisium Grid wasn't rezzed (and why would the corp rez Crisium Grid if the runner gave no indication that he was going in for a QC in the 4th click?) during the HQ run, can you QC?

And if Crisium Grid being rezzed matters to QC, can it be rezzed in the third click?

Innnnnnnnteresting.
 
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Andrew Keddie
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Assuming Crisium was active in pretty sure it invalidates QC. I don't think you can Data Leak if the server in question had a rezzed Crisium either.
 
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Neil G
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Crisium goes on R&D not HQ, and eater + Keyhole is only ever running that via Keyhole so you always want to rez Crisium. If your opponent is doing an Eater run without a card effect something is clearly fishy enough that it should be a sign to rez the Crisium anyway!

I haven't seen a specific ruling for this scenario but I'm sure there was an analogous ruling that you couldn't play Emergency Shutdown if the only run on HQ that turn had been against a rezzed crisium.
 
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Steven Tu
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CommissarFeesh wrote:
Assuming Crisium was active in pretty sure it invalidates QC. I don't think you can Data Leak if the server in question had a rezzed Crisium either.


Just checking if there was a ruling. I couldn't find one.
 
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Neil G
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Tuism wrote:
CommissarFeesh wrote:
Assuming Crisium was active in pretty sure it invalidates QC. I don't think you can Data Leak if the server in question had a rezzed Crisium either.


Just checking if there was a ruling. I couldn't find one.


This is the relevant ruling on Ancur: http://ancur.wikia.com/wiki/Crisium_Grid_v._Card_Restriction...
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C Spiekerman
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Tuism wrote:


Has there been a ruling on this? It still was a successful run, and Quest Completed wasn't "listening" to anything earlier in the turn before it was played.

In fact, if Crisium Grid wasn't rezzed (and why would the corp rez Crisium Grid if the runner gave no indication that he was going in for a QC in the 4th click?) during the HQ run, can you QC?

And if Crisium Grid being rezzed matters to QC, can it be rezzed in the third click?

Innnnnnnnteresting.


If Crisium was rezzed during the central run, then you can't play QC, as Dr. Tall clarified.

But if Crisium wasn't rezzed until after the central run, then you could still play the QC. I don't know if there's an official ruling on that one, but all the posters in the thread Dr. Tall is referring to (https://boardgamegeek.com/article/17802851#17802851) seemed pretty sure you can't get value out of a Crisium Grid rezzed after the run is over.
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Thomas Aldershof II
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If they can't get in they can't TRASH.

Mimic Eats Swordsman for Lunch!

I can't put Crisium in my Jinteki cause I am using the Influence, mainly for 3 Jackson Howards...

 
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