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Subject: Gerki vs Fiona, and Erin's Gambling Cards rss

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Nick Gray
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Gerki possesses, as everyone knows, a great number of cheating cards.
Fiona, however, possesses the be-all-end-all when it comes to cheating, a card which immediately ends the round of gambling and gives her the money (though only if she catches someone cheating).
Gerki possesses what is likely the second biggest jerk move of the game (second only to "I guess the Wench thought that was her tip), which allows the winner's gold to go to him instead of the winner. Because rogue.
So, if Gerki cheats, and gets caught by Fiona, but he then plays "I know you think you won, but..." does he get the money or does she?



Also, ERIN possesses a gambling card (not cheating) that gives her control of the round, and kicks out another player. It also has the additional benefit of not including the "Can't be played after a Winning Hand" clause, so it has all the perks of cheating without being a "cheating" card (and thus can be played without getting on Fiona's/Diedre's bad side). Is that intentional or a misprint in some way?

We've played with Cormac several times, and the highest we've ever been able to get his rage is the third tile. He seems like the weakest character deck we have (RDI 1-4, Cormac and ERIN), because his damage seems to average out (2-3/action) when he's on the second tile, and until then he's below average on damage and playing many of his defenses empties his rage pool.
Has anybody tried a houserule whereby he loses only his "building" rage pool, rather than his total rage pool, when playing cards that set back his rage? That way his rage tiles would be like checkpoints he wouldn't fall back past. I realize this makes his life more dangerous (I have saved myself by dumping a 3-tile rage pool to lower my alcohol gain by 2) but Barbarians have traditionally been an all-in class and playstyle, and he seems a little wishy-washy as written. By comparison, ERIN can almost always manage her cards to get all of the benefits of Bear and Raven forms with none of the downsides. And Raven form is scary good.

Some of the character decks seem to counter others; Phrenk's ability to deal massive amounts of alcohol damage very quickly makes him great against the tanky fighters (Fiona) but bad against the teetotalers (Dimli, Diedre). Was this intentional?

My group doesn't usually bother with gambling, preferring instead to beat others into a pulp (a habit we picked up in smaller games before moving to 6-8 person FFA's) so we've never seen someone win because of gold (we've seen people knocked out because of gold, but the final 2 or 3 always win with Alc/Fort damage). So I bring this up without a lot of context of my own, but I have seen several times where players have raised concerns that a 1st round "Gambling, I'm in!" can devastate a large playgroup. Has anyone considered a houserule that gambling can't begin until round two? or taking out some of the "I raise" cards when playing with more than about 5 people?

And lastly, what font do you use when making cards? I'm debating creating a homebrew character deck (or several) while I wait for the kickstarter to finish and ship (in November cry) at which point I'll get the Allies decks I'm missing.

Ok, that's all. 6 points of discussion; hope that's not too much.
 
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Michael Nerman
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Re: Gerki vs Fiona and other incidents.
It's not too much, but it's kind of too much for a single post. I got overwhelmed because there was too much to answer. I also dislike when a thread is split into many different conversations, and yours is intended likely to do that.

First of all, you're talking about Erin and not Eve. Erin doesn't cheat, so yes that card is printed correctly. All (I think) of the characters who don't cheat will have at least one powerful gambling card that isn't a cheating card.
 
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Nick Gray
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Re: Gerki vs Fiona and other incidents.
Thanks, and sorry for putting up so much at once. Let's just ignore the last half for now.

Do any characters other than Erin have "gambling" cards they can play after a winning hand? I know many of them have "cheating" cards that they could play, but nearly all the "gambling" cards explicitly state that they can't be played after a Winning Hand. I get that it's her best card for a gambling round, but it seems grossly unlike any other.

And how should the Gerki/Fiona situation be resolved?
 
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Sam Waller
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gr8artist wrote:
Gerki possesses, as everyone knows, a great number of cheating cards.
Fiona, however, possesses the be-all-end-all when it comes to cheating, a card which immediately ends the round of gambling and gives her the money (though only if she catches someone cheating).
Gerki possesses what is likely the second biggest jerk move of the game (second only to "I guess the Wench thought that was her tip), which allows the winner's gold to go to him instead of the winner. Because rogue.
So, if Gerki cheats, and gets caught by Fiona, but he then plays "I know you think you won, but..." does he get the money or does she?


Gerki gets the money. The text: "You may play this card even if you left the round of gambling" is the important clause here. Basically, you can think of it as: Fiona thought she caught Gerki cheating but he actually wasn't.

Gerki is absolutely the most powerful gambler and is an uber-jerk about that.

gr8artist wrote:
Also, ERIN possesses a gambling card (not cheating) that gives her control of the round, and kicks out another player. It also has the additional benefit of not including the "Can't be played after a Winning Hand" clause, so it has all the perks of cheating without being a "cheating" card (and thus can be played without getting on Fiona's/Diedre's bad side). Is that intentional or a misprint in some way?


That was intentional. She isn't cheating, she's just intimidating the other players, like certain popular Wookies.

gr8artist wrote:
We've played with Cormac several times, and the highest we've ever been able to get his rage is the third tile. He seems like the weakest character deck we have (RDI 1-4, Cormac and ERIN), because his damage seems to average out (2-3/action) when he's on the second tile, and until then he's below average on damage and playing many of his defenses empties his rage pool. Has anybody tried a houserule whereby he loses only his "building" rage pool, rather than his total rage pool, when playing cards that set back his rage? That way his rage tiles would be like checkpoints he wouldn't fall back past. I realize this makes his life more dangerous (I have saved myself by dumping a 3-tile rage pool to lower my alcohol gain by 2) but Barbarians have traditionally been an all-in class and playstyle, and he seems a little wishy-washy as written. By comparison, ERIN can almost always manage her cards to get all of the benefits of Bear and Raven forms with none of the downsides. And Raven form is scary good.


Cormac is surprisingly a finesse character. You need to either carefully build your rage, or aggressively discard your hand to get access to those double rage cards. He only has two ways to reset his rage (both of his recovery cards), and when I want to go all-in and I draw one early I'll dump it into the Rage Pile. He is intentionally difficult to pilot, as +2 or 3 damage on every action (and hit-back!) can be devastating.

If you are having difficulty getting Cormac to bulk up, I suggest you completely ignore Gambling cards and discard them (or even drop them into your Rage Pile) so you can get to your actions faster.

gr8artist wrote:
Some of the character decks seem to counter others; Phrenk's ability to deal massive amounts of alcohol damage very quickly makes him great against the tanky fighters (Fiona) but bad against the teetotalers (Dimli, Diedre). Was this intentional?


Absolutely. With so many characters there are certainly a number of match ups that have favorites, however we try to make sure that they aren't TOO lopsided.

gr8artist wrote:
My group doesn't usually bother with gambling, preferring instead to beat others into a pulp (a habit we picked up in smaller games before moving to 6-8 person FFA's) so we've never seen someone win because of gold (we've seen people knocked out because of gold, but the final 2 or 3 always win with Alc/Fort damage). So I bring this up without a lot of context of my own, but I have seen several times where players have raised concerns that a 1st round "Gambling, I'm in!" can devastate a large playgroup. Has anyone considered a houserule that gambling can't begin until round two? or taking out some of the "I raise" cards when playing with more than about 5 people?


First off, I assume you are aware that gold is split among the remaining players when a player is eliminated.

Secondly, players in games of 7+ should start with 12 Gold instead of 10.

Thirdly, the simplest houserule I've ever encountered was just making sure that there is an even split of "Gamblers" and "Non-Gamblers" and that there is a "Non-Gambler" in between each "Gambler". Another houserule for large games is to allow each player a free Discard and Draw during the first player's Discard and Draw on the first turn of the game.

Lastly, while you can play the game with 7+ players, we typically suggest you play in groups of 4-6. Once you break that threshold, the game gets pretty explosive.

gr8artist wrote:
And lastly, what font do you use when making cards? I'm debating creating a homebrew character deck (or several) while I wait for the kickstarter to finish and ship (in November cry) at which point I'll get the Allies decks I'm missing.


We use a homebrewed variant of Boister Black for the titles. Basically we altered a couple of the letters. For the game text, we use Times New Roman like everyone else.

gr8artist wrote:
Ok, that's all. 6 points of discussion; hope that's not too much.


Glad to be of help. Have fun!
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Michael Nerman
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Sam Waller wrote:
The simplest houserule I've ever encountered was just making sure that there is an even split of "Gamblers" and "Non-Gamblers" and that there is a "Non-Gambler" in between each "Gambler". Another houserule for large games is to allow each player a free Discard and Draw during the first player's Discard and Draw on the first turn of the game.

I bet folks would love to see a thread where you tell us what your favourite house rules are!
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Nick Gray
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Yes, a thread on recommended or verified/used houserules would be pretty sweet.

Glad to know we played the Gerki/Fiona conflict right. Gerki's deck seems really, really good, with better than average offence in every area and plenty of defense to avoid nasty effects. He suffers a little in larger groups, but in typical rogue fashion he's a nightmare when it comes to duels.

Typically we do rush Cormac's rage as quickly as we can. In the most recent game (3 players - Cormac, Erin, and one from RDI 4) I managed to play a 2x rage action card on turn 1 and another on turn 2. I even picked up "Barbarian Rage" to surprise Erin with my third tile as an interrupt to my own 3rd turn action (which put me at 1 card building, 5 completed in my rage pool after resolution). But then I almost immediately had to dump it all to avoid passing out drunk from what was admittedly a stroke of bad luck. Still, with the best luck I'd ever seen on the character (practically no way to rage faster) a little bit of bad luck completely shot me down.

Yes, we are aware of the rule about half a defeated player's money getting divided among the remaining players. My question about the gambling houserule was to address issues I'd seen other people mention in older posts on these forums. My group typically doesn't gamble much, and most players opt out of rounds when they can, unless it's a first turn fiasco and they're holding a hand full of gambling cards they haven't had a chance to dump yet.
We haven't had a 7+ player game, so we haven't started with 12 gold, but I am aware of the rule.

Boister Black? I'll have to see if I have that font; thanks.
When working on some custom character decks, I did a basic rudimentary analysis of the decks from RDI 1 and 2, giving each card a "value" based on how it compared to similar cards.
Action - lose 1 fortitude was, for example, a 1 point card, while Action - lose 2 fortitude was a 2 point card. Hit-backs were a 3-point card, since they didn't require an action, but I think I listed spiked drinks/water-into-wine as a 2 point card since drink-dumping is a popular mechanic for everyone. Anyway, do you guys have something similar, a rough idea of which cards are equivalent to which others?

(I know, multiple conversations are bad, but I figure it's less worse at this point than making a new thread; let me know if I'm wrong)

 
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Michael Nerman
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It seems to me that if your table doesn't like gambling and dumps all their gambling cards, that would be a good reason to start gambling...
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Nick Gray
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True. I tried it the other day and almost took out my GF in 1v1 game with Gerki (only taking money) vs Fiona (doing physical damage). It came out to a pretty even game, but only because she caught on halfway through and started hoarding gold protection cards instead of physical protection and retaliation.
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Sam Waller
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gr8artist wrote:
True. I tried it the other day and almost took out my GF in 1v1 game with Gerki (only taking money) vs Fiona (doing physical damage). It came out to a pretty even game, but only because she caught on halfway through and started hoarding gold protection cards instead of physical protection and retaliation.


And that dynamic is absolutely intentional. Gambling only matters when one player decides it does. As soon as that happens,then you start to get some interesting reactions from other players at the table.
 
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Nick Gray
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That makes sense.
I love this game, by the way. It's probably my favorite (right up there with Carcassonne, Settlers of Catan, and Smallworld).
Sam, out of curiosity, how long did it take to create RDI, from concept to production?
 
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