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Subject: Signs we are not doing enough about ISIS... rss

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Looks like the JV team is looking to expand, and in to EUROPE even.....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/islamic-state/1141...
 
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Well who would have thought that attaching someone might make them want to retaliate.
 
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slatersteven wrote:
Well who would have thought that attaching someone might make them want to retaliate.


And you missed the point again.....
 
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TheDashi wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Well who would have thought that attaching someone might make them want to retaliate.


And you missed the point again.....
No, I addressed the point.

It's not that we have not done enough, this has been caused by doing too much to late. If we had stopped ISIS before they became this big (by say backing Assad against the rebels) we would not now see them in control of such a large area. If (once we had created this monster) not decided to bomb them maybe they would not have decided 9for some strange reason beyond you) that we are their enemies.

If I go into a pub and not punch someone I have a right to say "why did you punch me", if I go into a pub and punch someone I have no right to say "but if you punch me that is wrong".
 
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slatersteven wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Well who would have thought that attaching someone might make them want to retaliate.


And you missed the point again.....
No, I addressed the point.

It's not that we have not done enough, this has been caused by doing too much to late. If we had stopped ISIS before they became this big (by say backing Assad against the rebels) we would not now see them in control of such a large area. If (once we had created this monster) not decided to bomb them maybe they would not have decided 9for some strange reason beyond you) that we are their enemies.

If I go into a pub and not punch someone I have a right to say "why did you punch me", if I go into a pub and punch someone I have no right to say "but if you punch me that is wrong".


Do you really believe we just cant stop them?
Do you think that if we tried harder to stop them they wouldnt have a prayer of reaching Europe?
 
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I'm not sure ISIS coming up with crazy-ass plans that have no hope of working is a better sign we're not doing enough than all the people they are killing.
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Boaty McBoatface
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TheDashi wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Well who would have thought that attaching someone might make them want to retaliate.


And you missed the point again.....
No, I addressed the point.

It's not that we have not done enough, this has been caused by doing too much to late. If we had stopped ISIS before they became this big (by say backing Assad against the rebels) we would not now see them in control of such a large area. If (once we had created this monster) not decided to bomb them maybe they would not have decided 9for some strange reason beyond you) that we are their enemies.

If I go into a pub and not punch someone I have a right to say "why did you punch me", if I go into a pub and punch someone I have no right to say "but if you punch me that is wrong".


Do you really believe we just cant stop them?
Do you think that if we tried harder to stop them they wouldnt have a prayer of reaching Europe?
I do not think they have a prayer of reaching Europe now. And no I do not think that we can stop them now, even if we take over all of their land do you really think that they will not be able to still launch random attacks on Europe?

Also how do we try harder? What do you think will work to stop them?

By the way I think we can stop them, but not being at war with them.
 
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slatersteven wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Well who would have thought that attaching someone might make them want to retaliate.


And you missed the point again.....
No, I addressed the point.

It's not that we have not done enough, this has been caused by doing too much to late. If we had stopped ISIS before they became this big (by say backing Assad against the rebels) we would not now see them in control of such a large area. If (once we had created this monster) not decided to bomb them maybe they would not have decided 9for some strange reason beyond you) that we are their enemies.

If I go into a pub and not punch someone I have a right to say "why did you punch me", if I go into a pub and punch someone I have no right to say "but if you punch me that is wrong".


Do you really believe we just cant stop them?
Do you think that if we tried harder to stop them they wouldnt have a prayer of reaching Europe?
I do not think they have a prayer of reaching Europe now. And no I do not think that we can stop them now, even if we take over all of their land do you really think that they will not be able to still launch random attacks on Europe?

Also how do we try harder? What do you think will work to stop them?

By the way I think we can stop them, but not being at war with them.


I cant take your questions seriously, How do we try harder?
Well how do you think?
We let them storm through Iraq, why wouldnt they keep going?
 
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There must always be an ISIS, at least in my life time...

Western civilization did not come about in 20 years and many areas of the middle east are frankly not ready for democracy. You knock down ISIS and someone else is just going to fill the void and terrorize the same or even different groups of people.

It's like playing whack-a-mole with evil. The only solution is to educate the populous but you cannot do that quickly. Might sound like I'm saying nothing can be done and you are probably right for the short term. It would be better for us to engage in 'propaganda' than warfare if anything.
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scott3387 wrote:
There must always be an ISIS, at least in my life time...

Western civilization did not come about in 20 years and many areas of the middle east are frankly not ready for democracy. You knock down ISIS and someone else is just going to fill the void and terrorize the same or even different groups of people.

It's like playing whack-a-mole with evil. The only solution is to educate the populous but you cannot do that quickly. Might sound like I'm saying nothing can be done and you are probably right for the short term. It would be better for us to engage in 'propaganda' than warfare if anything.


Maybe we should take the Obama administrations position and give them jobs, that will stop them from being terrorists right?

http://rt.com/usa/233275-war-against-isis-job-opportunities/
 
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TheDashi wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Well who would have thought that attaching someone might make them want to retaliate.


And you missed the point again.....
No, I addressed the point.

It's not that we have not done enough, this has been caused by doing too much to late. If we had stopped ISIS before they became this big (by say backing Assad against the rebels) we would not now see them in control of such a large area. If (once we had created this monster) not decided to bomb them maybe they would not have decided 9for some strange reason beyond you) that we are their enemies.

If I go into a pub and not punch someone I have a right to say "why did you punch me", if I go into a pub and punch someone I have no right to say "but if you punch me that is wrong".


Do you really believe we just cant stop them?
Do you think that if we tried harder to stop them they wouldnt have a prayer of reaching Europe?
I do not think they have a prayer of reaching Europe now. And no I do not think that we can stop them now, even if we take over all of their land do you really think that they will not be able to still launch random attacks on Europe?

Also how do we try harder? What do you think will work to stop them?

By the way I think we can stop them, but not being at war with them.


I cant take your questions seriously, How do we try harder?
Well how do you think?
We let them storm through Iraq, why wouldnt they keep going?
Your the one saying we should try harder, not me...so why would I need to think of a way to try harder? In fact I think I have said we have in fact already done too much, and need to stop interfering in the region.

So I will ask again what more do you think can be done?

As to why they would stop going.

A. Europe is in the other direction.
B., the same reasons that many invaders have stopped in the past, they have what they wanted.
C. You do know that we can stop them, at the boarder.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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TheDashi wrote:
scott3387 wrote:
There must always be an ISIS, at least in my life time...

Western civilization did not come about in 20 years and many areas of the middle east are frankly not ready for democracy. You knock down ISIS and someone else is just going to fill the void and terrorize the same or even different groups of people.

It's like playing whack-a-mole with evil. The only solution is to educate the populous but you cannot do that quickly. Might sound like I'm saying nothing can be done and you are probably right for the short term. It would be better for us to engage in 'propaganda' than warfare if anything.


Maybe we should take the Obama administrations position and give them jobs, that will stop them from being terrorists right?

http://rt.com/usa/233275-war-against-isis-job-opportunities/
Poverty and a sense of resentment are major recruiting tools for terrorists, remove the sense of grievance and they will find it harder to recruit.

In addition one of the reasons why ISIS has been successful is that they have been able to exploit the endemic corruption of the region, another symptom of poverty.
 
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slatersteven wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Well who would have thought that attaching someone might make them want to retaliate.


And you missed the point again.....
No, I addressed the point.

It's not that we have not done enough, this has been caused by doing too much to late. If we had stopped ISIS before they became this big (by say backing Assad against the rebels) we would not now see them in control of such a large area. If (once we had created this monster) not decided to bomb them maybe they would not have decided 9for some strange reason beyond you) that we are their enemies.

If I go into a pub and not punch someone I have a right to say "why did you punch me", if I go into a pub and punch someone I have no right to say "but if you punch me that is wrong".


Do you really believe we just cant stop them?
Do you think that if we tried harder to stop them they wouldnt have a prayer of reaching Europe?
I do not think they have a prayer of reaching Europe now. And no I do not think that we can stop them now, even if we take over all of their land do you really think that they will not be able to still launch random attacks on Europe?

Also how do we try harder? What do you think will work to stop them?

By the way I think we can stop them, but not being at war with them.


I cant take your questions seriously, How do we try harder?
Well how do you think?
We let them storm through Iraq, why wouldnt they keep going?
Your the one saying we should try harder, not me...so why would I need to think of a way to try harder?

As to why they would stop going.

A. Europe is in the other direction.
B., the same reasons that many invaders have stopped in the past, they have what they wanted.
C. You do know that we can stop them, at the boarder.


God, I dont get you.... I just dont.
How can we try harder? How about troops that will actually go in and crush them?
I know that is a HUGE LEAP, and I suppose I should understand why you were incapable of thinking of that.......but what do I know....
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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TheDashi wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Well who would have thought that attaching someone might make them want to retaliate.


And you missed the point again.....
No, I addressed the point.

It's not that we have not done enough, this has been caused by doing too much to late. If we had stopped ISIS before they became this big (by say backing Assad against the rebels) we would not now see them in control of such a large area. If (once we had created this monster) not decided to bomb them maybe they would not have decided 9for some strange reason beyond you) that we are their enemies.

If I go into a pub and not punch someone I have a right to say "why did you punch me", if I go into a pub and punch someone I have no right to say "but if you punch me that is wrong".


Do you really believe we just cant stop them?
Do you think that if we tried harder to stop them they wouldnt have a prayer of reaching Europe?
I do not think they have a prayer of reaching Europe now. And no I do not think that we can stop them now, even if we take over all of their land do you really think that they will not be able to still launch random attacks on Europe?

Also how do we try harder? What do you think will work to stop them?

By the way I think we can stop them, but not being at war with them.


I cant take your questions seriously, How do we try harder?
Well how do you think?
We let them storm through Iraq, why wouldnt they keep going?
Your the one saying we should try harder, not me...so why would I need to think of a way to try harder?

As to why they would stop going.

A. Europe is in the other direction.
B., the same reasons that many invaders have stopped in the past, they have what they wanted.
C. You do know that we can stop them, at the boarder.


God, I dont get you.... I just dont.
How can we try harder? How about troops that will actually go in and crush them?
I know that is a HUGE LEAP, and I suppose I should understand why you were incapable of thinking of that.......but what do I know....
But will it crush them, have we crushed Al Qaeda? In fact the UK has had more Al Qaeda inspired terror attacks since we "crushed them" then before. So if the goal is to prevent terror attacks in Europe I am not sure a ground invasion will work, it has not before.
 
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TheDashi wrote:
scott3387 wrote:
There must always be an ISIS, at least in my life time...

Western civilization did not come about in 20 years and many areas of the middle east are frankly not ready for democracy. You knock down ISIS and someone else is just going to fill the void and terrorize the same or even different groups of people.

It's like playing whack-a-mole with evil. The only solution is to educate the populous but you cannot do that quickly. Might sound like I'm saying nothing can be done and you are probably right for the short term. It would be better for us to engage in 'propaganda' than warfare if anything.


Maybe we should take the Obama administrations position and give them jobs, that will stop them from being terrorists right?

http://rt.com/usa/233275-war-against-isis-job-opportunities/


1)If ISIS is looking to get into europe then it might be cause for *Europe* to ratchet things up. Here across an ocean though I think we can discount the rudimentary boat angle.

2)The state department is correct. If people have no alternative they can see they will continue to join ISIS because bandit is a job that has excellent short-term earnings potential. This is old news. This is culturally universal. See:The Crusades. See:many periods of economic disorder in China. See:history all over the place. It's been a basic truth that some people still refuse to accept that economic development, real development not predetory exploitation, is the key to stability. Daishi if you really care and aren't just in the neener squad you should take some PL SC courses and read some historical accounts. This stuff isn't complex or partisan in nature.
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TheDashi wrote:
scott3387 wrote:
There must always be an ISIS, at least in my life time...

Western civilization did not come about in 20 years and many areas of the middle east are frankly not ready for democracy. You knock down ISIS and someone else is just going to fill the void and terrorize the same or even different groups of people.

It's like playing whack-a-mole with evil. The only solution is to educate the populous but you cannot do that quickly. Might sound like I'm saying nothing can be done and you are probably right for the short term. It would be better for us to engage in 'propaganda' than warfare if anything.


Maybe we should take the Obama administrations position and give them jobs, that will stop them from being terrorists right?

http://rt.com/usa/233275-war-against-isis-job-opportunities/


The sole reason for poverty and people wanting to burn, bomb and behead babies and children is the lack of entry level jobs in Islamic Theocracies. This whole Jihad thing is really caused by Mcdonalds, Chic-Fil-A and the whole evil fast food cartel. And, of course, the Koch Bros.

Obama has it right... see State Department solution below:


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TheDashi wrote:
scott3387 wrote:
There must always be an ISIS, at least in my life time...

Western civilization did not come about in 20 years and many areas of the middle east are frankly not ready for democracy. You knock down ISIS and someone else is just going to fill the void and terrorize the same or even different groups of people.

It's like playing whack-a-mole with evil. The only solution is to educate the populous but you cannot do that quickly. Might sound like I'm saying nothing can be done and you are probably right for the short term. It would be better for us to engage in 'propaganda' than warfare if anything.


Maybe we should take the Obama administrations position and give them jobs, that will stop them from being terrorists right?

http://rt.com/usa/233275-war-against-isis-job-opportunities/


The reason why ISIS is the size it is is because of military aged men not being able to work regular jobs because of the wars. That's what drove the large portion of Iraqi Sunnis to join ISIS.
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Michael Carter
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TheDashi wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Well who would have thought that attaching someone might make them want to retaliate.


And you missed the point again.....
No, I addressed the point.

It's not that we have not done enough, this has been caused by doing too much to late. If we had stopped ISIS before they became this big (by say backing Assad against the rebels) we would not now see them in control of such a large area. If (once we had created this monster) not decided to bomb them maybe they would not have decided 9for some strange reason beyond you) that we are their enemies.

If I go into a pub and not punch someone I have a right to say "why did you punch me", if I go into a pub and punch someone I have no right to say "but if you punch me that is wrong".


Do you really believe we just cant stop them?
Do you think that if we tried harder to stop them they wouldnt have a prayer of reaching Europe?
I do not think they have a prayer of reaching Europe now. And no I do not think that we can stop them now, even if we take over all of their land do you really think that they will not be able to still launch random attacks on Europe?

Also how do we try harder? What do you think will work to stop them?

By the way I think we can stop them, but not being at war with them.


I cant take your questions seriously, How do we try harder?
Well how do you think?
We let them storm through Iraq, why wouldnt they keep going?
Your the one saying we should try harder, not me...so why would I need to think of a way to try harder?

As to why they would stop going.

A. Europe is in the other direction.
B., the same reasons that many invaders have stopped in the past, they have what they wanted.
C. You do know that we can stop them, at the boarder.


God, I dont get you.... I just dont.
How can we try harder? How about troops that will actually go in and crush them?
I know that is a HUGE LEAP, and I suppose I should understand why you were incapable of thinking of that.......but what do I know....


That failed in Iraq and Afghanistan. What makes you think it will work now? Conventional forces are worthless in a guerrilla war.
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Are they going to use ebola infected people to wage war against Europe, like they did the U.S.?
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Drew1365 wrote:
Is the left still pretending that there's a link between terrorism and poverty? I thought that had been debunked long ago.

You all need to read this piece in The Atlantic.

What ISIS Really Wants.

It is being called the most important piece of journalism of the last decade.

It will explain ISIS for you.

Hint: It's not about poverty. It's not about jobs programs. You don't "community organize" against ISIS.

In an administration marked by gross incompetence (where perfidy can't be blamed) the State Department is the most incompetent part.

No one is saying poverty caused ISIS, they are saying it helps create recruits. Look at successful counter insurgency campaigns, they are marked by such things as poverty reduction, health care provision and making it more economical useful to oppose the terrorists than it is to join them.
 
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Drew1365 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
Is the left still pretending that there's a link between terrorism and poverty? I thought that had been debunked long ago.

You all need to read this piece in The Atlantic.

What ISIS Really Wants.

It is being called the most important piece of journalism of the last decade.

It will explain ISIS for you.

Hint: It's not about poverty. It's not about jobs programs. You don't "community organize" against ISIS.

In an administration marked by gross incompetence (where perfidy can't be blamed) the State Department is the most incompetent part.

No one is saying poverty caused ISIS, they are saying it helps create recruits.


Not another word from you until you read the piece.
We are not talking about what ISIS wants, but why it is successful.

ISIS would wither on the vine if it relied on it's

Quote:
most ardent followers


Just as any terrorist group that cannot appeal to a wider audience does.

That is where economic warfare comes in, removing it's support base, not it's core supporters.
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The article is a good one and I learnt quite a bit but it's a heap more nuanced than ISIS evil, Obama terrible.
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Drew1365 wrote:
jmilum wrote:
Are they going to use ebola infected people to wage war against Europe, like they did the U.S.?


Why don't you read the fucking article. You might have some trouble with the big words, but you might learn something and stop being an asswipe.

I don't need to read that article to ask the OP a question about the OP. He Chicken-Littled about ISIS and Ebola and an attack on the U.S before, I wondered if he was doing the same about Europe.

But I have read that article and it doesn't support ISIS invading Europe, the opposite actually.
 
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Drew1365 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
Not another word from you until you read the piece.
We are not talking about what ISIS wants, but why it is successful.


Seriously. Zip it.


You are a very small and pathetic creature Drew. I hope you have the good fortune to spout off your diatribe to the wrong person in an environment not utterly protected from any form of accountability. The beatdown might actually help your head-ass alignment.
 
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bjlillo wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
That is where economic warfare comes in, removing it's support base, not it's core supporters.


You really don't understand what's going on. Read the piece. It will help you immensely.
I have, and no where does it say that a tactic of economic inducement will not work. In fact it makes it clear that making it seem like

Quote:
yet another Middle Eastern government failing to bring prosperity to its people.


Odd statement that, if it is seen as economically failing it's people it will fail. Indeed it says quite clearly that military options are bad, not good.

In fact the article calls for more of the same, we starve it politically and economically, and do not escalate. ISIS needs war, we cannot afford to give it what it needs. What it does not need is it being demonstrated to all but the fanatics that (as a government) it is failing them (which the article makes quite clear).
 
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