Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
88 Posts
1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Everything Else » Religion, Sex, and Politics

Subject: Why Are There Relatively Few Female Game Designers? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Carl Parsons
United States
Carrollton
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The choice to design or not design a game is a personal one. It's up to each individual woman to make their own choice. So far very few of them have made the choice to design a game. I really don't think it's any more complex than that.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Salch
United States
Bristol
Connecticut
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Try this geek list:
Women Game Designers


OR
Designing Women

OR

Good Games Designed by Women
9 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
フィル
Australia
Ashfield
NSW
flag msg tools
designer
badge
I am the wasp / that burrows in! I am the shriek / of twilight din!
Avatar
mbmbmb
Gaming has been a male dominated hobby for a long time, and fewer female players naturally means fewer female designers. As more women get into the hobby we'll surely see more female designers.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tobias Strobe
United States
Oakland
California
flag msg tools
badge
Listen to your sidekick and eat the pennies.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Short answer: Women are culturally discouraged from gaming, and only a small % of people interested in gaming are moved to become designers.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
フィル
Australia
Ashfield
NSW
flag msg tools
designer
badge
I am the wasp / that burrows in! I am the shriek / of twilight din!
Avatar
mbmbmb
Hethalos wrote:
That's good to know. I'd really be interested in playing a combat-driven game designed by a woman.

Linda Mosca designed some hex-and-counter wargames for SPI back in the day. Rocroi is supposed to be a really good one.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nadine W
Israel
Jerusalem
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

Too much math.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chad Ellis
United States
Brookline
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Since most people aren't game designers and game designers rarely talk about the details of our craft, it's not widely recognized that being male is a huge advantage. If I were to list the most critical aspects of game design they would be something like this (in no particular order):

Initial conception
Pasting on of flavor
Penis measuring
Playtesting
Growing of facial hair
Writing rules
Art and graphic design

Now, a female designer could measure a sex toy or perhaps the penis of a friend or lover, but it's not quite the same. Similarly, most women can't grow enough facial hair, which is actually fairly important. (I think the weaknesses of Succession are due in part to my shaving too often during early design. You can try to get by without it, just like you can try to get by without pasting on a superficial theme, but the result isn't likely to be as good.
13 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
William Boykin
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
For BJ.....
Avatar
mb
It's not video games, but Salon has a nice interview with Andy Gonzalez and Sophie Houser, two young women who made the flash game "Tampon Run" while attending "Girls Who Code", a summer camp for high school girls who are curious about the technology industry.

In the interview, the two young women discuss how they got involved in the gaming industry, why they made their game, and how they perceive the difficulties faced by women in the tech industry.

Darilian
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
フィル
Australia
Ashfield
NSW
flag msg tools
designer
badge
I am the wasp / that burrows in! I am the shriek / of twilight din!
Avatar
mbmbmb
Hethalos wrote:
Wait, how are women culturally discouraged from gaming? Any specific examples or anecdotes?

It is a whole lot better now, but there was a time when a woman who entered a game store could pretty much expect to be harassed. Here at least women now seem to be welcome. All the cons I go to and my FLGS treat female players well. They're still in the minority of players, so it makes sense that they are also in the minority of designers, for now.

Tangentially, could someone ask Claudia Hely design more mean euros? She hasn't published a game for over ten years.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hethalos wrote:
sbszine wrote:
Gaming has been a male dominated hobby for a long time, and fewer female players naturally means fewer female designers. As more women get into the hobby we'll surely see more female designers.


That's good to know. I'd really be interested in playing a combat-driven game designed by a woman.
Why?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hethalos wrote:
Ilthuain wrote:
Short answer: Women are culturally discouraged from gaming, and only a small % of people interested in gaming are moved to become designers.


Wait, how are women culturally discouraged from gaming? Any specific examples or anecdotes?
"HELLOOO!, so you want to game, well sit next to meee and I will teach you, by the way that is a smashing blouse your wearing".

Yes I have seen this (but with less humour), and it creeped the fuck out of me.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
C Bazler
United States
Bronx
New York
flag msg tools
"Come, and trip it as you go..."
badge
"...on the light fantastic toe."
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Alaren wrote:
Hethalos wrote:
Why Are There Relatively Few Female Game Designers?


For much the same reason that there are relatively few female garbage truck drivers.

Because men and women are different.


shake
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Beaton
Canada
Toronto
Ontario
flag msg tools
badge
I have a cunning plan
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There have been a few occasions in the wargames forum where women have objected to things being said by other wargamers - sexual metaphors for military operations, off-colour jokes, assumptions that all wargamers are straight males and want to see pictures of buxom women half out of uniform - and the responses have usually communicated a total lack of empathy for anyone who isn't a straight male. There have been a few well known wargaming women who have left the forum because they were made to feel totally unwelcome in the boys club.
Does this happen elsewhere in the gaming world? Could be. It doesn't take very many misogynist jerks to poison the atmosphere to the point where women don't want to put up with the crap anymore.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Boise
Idaho
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
sbszine wrote:
Hethalos wrote:
Wait, how are women culturally discouraged from gaming? Any specific examples or anecdotes?

It is a whole lot better now, but there was a time when a woman who entered a game store could pretty much expect to be harassed. Here at least women now seem to be welcome. All the cons I go to and my FLGS treat female players well. They're still in the minority of players, so it makes sense that they are also in the minority of designers, for now.

Tangentially, could someone ask Claudia Hely design more mean euros? She hasn't published a game for over ten years.


Why does this falsehood keep being unearthed? Harassed? Other than the undocumented claims of a few screeching gamer harridans whose sole purpose in life is to somehow get sympathy for the plague of microaggressions committed against them daily - who was supposedly doing all this harassing?

I only ask because I owned a game store from 1982 until 2006. And in 1982 there weren't enough game stores to even be considered a tiny retail segment. Most games were sold via hobby stores, book stores and sometimes (rarely) the larger comic book stores. So this whole plague of harassing women in game stores is a total fucking myth. Created, I imagine, by women who feel the need to be more significant participants in the politics of gaming.

Females were common in my store, even back in the misty beginnings of game stores... the early 80's. My original D&D group in 1978 had 3 women out of 8 total players. My wife and then later another wife and my daughter all worked in my store and were never harassed. Although, I admit, one annoying geek used to bring various musical instruments to serenade my daughter with. I tossed him out the day he perched on the stairs with a fucking harp.

Most of the people I have gamed with the last 35 years or more have children and at least half are daughters. Those girls gamed and grew up to be women and many still game. I have gamed with wives, mine and those of friends, and had women in my store buying gifts for their sons and husbands and SO's for the entire duration I owned it.

Never once, not even once, did I ever hear about any woman in my store or in any of the stores of friends and fellow owners I knew and visited, complain about being harassed or abused or treated poorly in a store due to her gender. I call total bullshit on this. I traveled to Gencons, Origins and trade shows all through the eighties and nineties and women were ubiquitous and thriving members of the community. My key distributor for 20 years, Berkeley Game Distributors, was run by a woman CEO.

The internet and the need for attention by attention whores is the cause of this myth, It's bogus. No doubt there is the odd shitstick comic book shop owner who is less than friendly. But trust me, there are a lot more unfriendly and hateful women who are spoiling for a fight than there are men harassing women.
9 
 Thumb up
5.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
There is no Dana, only Zuul
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have it on good authority that the real reason is that there's no ethics in journalism in respect to women in gaming. Or, girls make terrible games. Or they're ruining the art of things by selfishly trying to break down imagined stereotypical tropes.

But mostly, it's because chicks, man. They ruin everything. Thank goodness there are people willing to stop their invasion of an otherwise perfect as-is industry.

9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lee Fisher
United States
Downingtown
PA
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
#NotAllGameStores
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DWTripp wrote:
sbszine wrote:
Hethalos wrote:
Wait, how are women culturally discouraged from gaming? Any specific examples or anecdotes?

It is a whole lot better now, but there was a time when a woman who entered a game store could pretty much expect to be harassed. Here at least women now seem to be welcome. All the cons I go to and my FLGS treat female players well. They're still in the minority of players, so it makes sense that they are also in the minority of designers, for now.

Tangentially, could someone ask Claudia Hely design more mean euros? She hasn't published a game for over ten years.


Why does this falsehood keep being unearthed? Harassed? Other than the undocumented claims of a few screeching gamer harridans whose sole purpose in life is to somehow get sympathy for the plague of microaggressions committed against them daily - who was supposedly doing all this harassing?

I only ask because I owned a game store from 1982 until 2006. And in 1982 there weren't enough game stores to even be considered a tiny retail segment. Most games were sold via hobby stores, book stores and sometimes (rarely) the larger comic book stores. So this whole plague of harassing women in game stores is a total fucking myth. Created, I imagine, by women who feel the need to be more significant participants in the politics of gaming.

Females were common in my store, even back in the misty beginnings of game stores... the early 80's. My original D&D group in 1978 had 3 women out of 8 total players. My wife and then later another wife and my daughter all worked in my store and were never harassed. Although, I admit, one annoying geek used to bring various musical instruments to serenade my daughter with. I tossed him out the day he perched on the stairs with a fucking harp.

Most of the people I have gamed with the last 35 years or more have children and at least half are daughters. Those girls gamed and grew up to be women and many still game. I have gamed with wives, mine and those of friends, and had women in my store buying gifts for their sons and husbands and SO's for the entire duration I owned it.

Never once, not even once, did I ever hear about any woman in my store or in any of the stores of friends and fellow owners I knew and visited, complain about being harassed or abused or treated poorly in a store due to her gender. I call total bullshit on this. I traveled to Gencons, Origins and trade shows all through the eighties and nineties and women were ubiquitous and thriving members of the community. My key distributor for 20 years, Berkeley Game Distributors, was run by a woman CEO.

The internet and the need for attention by attention whores is the cause of this myth, It's bogus. No doubt there is the odd shitstick comic book shop owner who is less than friendly. But trust me, there are a lot more unfriendly and hateful women who are spoiling for a fight than there are men harassing women.
Yet many of us here could tell equally provable anecdotes about how we have witnessed exactly the kind of harassment you claim does not happen.

I was saw a middle age man creep (and yes it was CREEEP) overt two teenage German exchange students to such a cringe inducing degree that even the resident wannabe Lotharios thought it was out of creepy (though that did not stop them also creeping over them as well), they never came back again (and were staying with the bloody store owner).
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Boise
Idaho
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
xilan wrote:
I have it on good authority that the real reason is that there's no ethics in journalism in respect to women in gaming. Or, girls make terrible games. Or they're ruining the art of things by selfishly trying to break down imagined stereotypical tropes.

But mostly, it's because chicks, man. They ruin everything. Thank goodness there are people willing to stop their invasion of an otherwise perfect as-is industry.



So what? A pic from 100 years ago and some online trolling of a video game creator doesn't add up to a convincing argument that stores that sell games exhibit a pattern of harassing women. Game stores sell board and RPG games. CCG's and CMG's. Not Steam releases. They aren't the internet and the owners and customers aren't a bunch of 14 year old pimpleboys with a headset and the anonymous freedom to be shits.

As for Slater's anecdote, so what? Even if it is true and not made up on the spot so he would have something to post on every thread in RSP, men get creepy with women everywhere. Ever been on a fucking subway?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Carl Parsons
United States
Carrollton
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
slatersteven wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
sbszine wrote:
Hethalos wrote:
Wait, how are women culturally discouraged from gaming? Any specific examples or anecdotes?

It is a whole lot better now, but there was a time when a woman who entered a game store could pretty much expect to be harassed. Here at least women now seem to be welcome. All the cons I go to and my FLGS treat female players well. They're still in the minority of players, so it makes sense that they are also in the minority of designers, for now.

Tangentially, could someone ask Claudia Hely design more mean euros? She hasn't published a game for over ten years.


Why does this falsehood keep being unearthed? Harassed? Other than the undocumented claims of a few screeching gamer harridans whose sole purpose in life is to somehow get sympathy for the plague of microaggressions committed against them daily - who was supposedly doing all this harassing?

I only ask because I owned a game store from 1982 until 2006. And in 1982 there weren't enough game stores to even be considered a tiny retail segment. Most games were sold via hobby stores, book stores and sometimes (rarely) the larger comic book stores. So this whole plague of harassing women in game stores is a total fucking myth. Created, I imagine, by women who feel the need to be more significant participants in the politics of gaming.

Females were common in my store, even back in the misty beginnings of game stores... the early 80's. My original D&D group in 1978 had 3 women out of 8 total players. My wife and then later another wife and my daughter all worked in my store and were never harassed. Although, I admit, one annoying geek used to bring various musical instruments to serenade my daughter with. I tossed him out the day he perched on the stairs with a fucking harp.

Most of the people I have gamed with the last 35 years or more have children and at least half are daughters. Those girls gamed and grew up to be women and many still game. I have gamed with wives, mine and those of friends, and had women in my store buying gifts for their sons and husbands and SO's for the entire duration I owned it.

Never once, not even once, did I ever hear about any woman in my store or in any of the stores of friends and fellow owners I knew and visited, complain about being harassed or abused or treated poorly in a store due to her gender. I call total bullshit on this. I traveled to Gencons, Origins and trade shows all through the eighties and nineties and women were ubiquitous and thriving members of the community. My key distributor for 20 years, Berkeley Game Distributors, was run by a woman CEO.

The internet and the need for attention by attention whores is the cause of this myth, It's bogus. No doubt there is the odd shitstick comic book shop owner who is less than friendly. But trust me, there are a lot more unfriendly and hateful women who are spoiling for a fight than there are men harassing women.
Yet many of us here could tell equally provable anecdotes about how we have witnessed exactly the kind of harassment you claim does not happen.

I was saw a middle age man creep (and yes it was CREEEP) overt two teenage German exchange students to such a cringe inducing degree that even the resident wannabe Lotharios thought it was out of creepy (though that did not stop them also creeping over them as well), they never came back again (and were staying with the bloody store owner).


Come on Slater, Tripp wouldn't lie.
4 
 Thumb up
0.06
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mac Mcleod
United States
houston
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
http://www.dlt.ri.gov/lmi/pdf/gender.pdf

Notable questions:
Why are female such a high percentage of accountants and tellers if they suck at math?
I mean most euros are straight accounting level math. I don't recall games with calculus.

Why are so many waiters and waitresses female?
Probably because females get bigger tips- so it's sexual discrimination by customers (which you can't stop).

Why are so many librarians female?
Historical? Men "feel" it's a female job so they avoid it? I mean- comfy job- good hours- decent pay.

Why so few female construction workers?
Because females are weaker than males. Perhaps because conditions suck?

Why are so many cooks male when females cook more often at home?
This is an odd one. On the "chef" shows, females are equally represented. No clue.

Why are so many janitors at businesses male... but housekeepers at hotels female?
Probably working hours. Fear of being attacked in an empty building at night higher than fear of being attacked in hotel between 10am and 3pm.


So why fewer female game designers?

Historical (men started gaming), Cultural (feel creepy like an outsider when you are a tiny percentage of the population, and some men act badly when they are part of a "herd"), Could be not as ego driven. And being a game designer doesn't pay very well for most. Your odds of becoming a successful actor seem better.
3 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DWTripp wrote:
xilan wrote:
I have it on good authority that the real reason is that there's no ethics in journalism in respect to women in gaming. Or, girls make terrible games. Or they're ruining the art of things by selfishly trying to break down imagined stereotypical tropes.

But mostly, it's because chicks, man. They ruin everything. Thank goodness there are people willing to stop their invasion of an otherwise perfect as-is industry.



So what? A pic from 100 years ago and some online trolling of a video game creator doesn't add up to a convincing argument that stores that sell games exhibit a pattern of harassing women. Game stores sell board and RPG games. CCG's and CMG's. Not Steam releases. They aren't the internet and the owners and customers aren't a bunch of 14 year old pimpleboys with a headset and the anonymous freedom to be shits.

As for Slater's anecdote, so what? Even if it is true and not made up on the spot so he would have something to post on every thread in RSP, men get creepy with women everywhere. Ever been on a fucking subway?
A. Do not judge everyone by your standards Tripp, I do not tell lies to win childish arguments.

B. You missed the bit where I pointed out there were two Lotharios, I should add. Who tried to get jiggady with any woman who turned at that shop.

The problem is that if I still know someone I can hardly tell strangers about what tossers they are towards women. So I stick to the one I no longer know.

I have seen this sort of thing not once but many times, at shows (Christ I would never have wanted to be a woman at some events I have been too), shops and groups. To be fair it's not universal, many shops try to be welcoming to all.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boaty McBoatface
England
County of Essex
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Alaren wrote:
DWTripp wrote:
As for Slater's anecdote, so what? Even if it is true and not made up on the spot so he would have something to post on every thread in RSP, men get creepy with women everywhere. Ever been on a fucking subway?


I'm not sure even half the people posting in RSP today understand the difference between the questions:

1. Why are there relatively few women designing games?
2. Is that a problem (and why)?
3. What (if anything) can be done about it?
4. What negative consequences (if any) might proposed solutions have for others?

These are actually all totally separate inquiries, and the answers to these questions are assumed obvious from the outset. Anyone who professes to not already know them is presumably the enemy.
Did I say anything should (or what should) be done about it?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alaren
United States
flag msg tools
Turtle Power
badge
all the way down
Avatar
mb
slatersteven wrote:
Did I say anything should (or what should) be done about it?


Slater, I can never be entirely sure you've said anything at all.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Boise
Idaho
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmb
batman wrote:

Come on Slater, Tripp wouldn't lie.


Here's you from my thread on lying:

Quote:
Sure, everyone lies about little things. Some things I think it's better to lie about.


Remind me again, is the the spot where I point out what a hypocrite you are? Or is this where I tell you to fuck off. I think the later... here's a video to help educate you -



 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
There is no Dana, only Zuul
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DWTripp wrote:
xilan wrote:
I have it on good authority that the real reason is that there's no ethics in journalism in respect to women in gaming. Or, girls make terrible games. Or they're ruining the art of things by selfishly trying to break down imagined stereotypical tropes.

But mostly, it's because chicks, man. They ruin everything. Thank goodness there are people willing to stop their invasion of an otherwise perfect as-is industry.



So what? A pic from 100 years ago and some online trolling of a video game creator doesn't add up to a convincing argument that stores that sell games exhibit a pattern of harassing women. Game stores sell board and RPG games. CCG's and CMG's. Not Steam releases. They aren't the internet and the owners and customers aren't a bunch of 14 year old pimpleboys with a headset and the anonymous freedom to be shits.

As for Slater's anecdote, so what? Even if it is true and not made up on the spot so he would have something to post on every thread in RSP, men get creepy with women everywhere. Ever been on a fucking subway?

I didn't say anything about game stores, and nothing I linked to was about game stores. I responded to the original question of why there are so few women game designers.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2 , 3 , 4  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.